Win Higher-Quality Links: The PR Approach To SEO Success [Webinar] via @sejournal, @lorenbaker

Are you ready to master the art of earning high-quality editorial links?

Join us on April 9, 2025, for our exclusive webinar, “Win Higher-Quality Links: The PR Approach To SEO Success.” As Google’s AI-driven algorithms evolve, the importance of securing authoritative links has never been greater. Learn from the experts how to enhance your SEO strategy with proven Digital PR techniques.

Why This Webinar Is a Must-Attend Event

This session is designed for those looking to elevate their link-building strategies beyond traditional methods. Discover a data-driven approach that has helped large brands secure hundreds of top-tier links and media mentions.

What You Will Learn:

  • Effective Digital PR Processes: Uncover the step-by-step process and tools needed to earn contextual, editorial links from leading publications.
  • Strategic Insights: Learn how combining data insights with expert commentary can attract significant press coverage.
  • Success Stories: Examine real-world case studies from enterprise brands that have successfully implemented these digital PR strategies.

Expert Guidance From Kevin Rowe

Kevin Rowe, an expert in digital PR strategies for enterprise brands, will lead the webinar. He’ll share the methodologies he’s used to gain impactful links, helping you understand how to apply these strategies to your own efforts.

Interactive Q&A Session

The webinar will conclude with a LIVE Q&A session, offering you the chance to ask Kevin your detailed questions about digital PR and link building.

Don’t Miss Out!

If you’re aiming to earn links that truly reflect your brand’s expertise and drive SEO success, this webinar will provide you with the actionable strategies you need.

Reserve your spot now to start leveraging your brand’s data and expertise into authoritative media coverage.

Google Confirms You Can’t Add EEAT To Your Web Pages via @sejournal, @martinibuster

Google’s John Mueller offered an overview of EEAT (Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness) at the Search Central Live NYC event and affirmed why it matters for some sites and why it’s not something SEOs can add to a website.

EEAT’s Relation To Quality Raters And YMYL Websites

John Mueller started this part of his discussion by explicitly tying the concept to its use as a way for the third party quality raters to provide a more objective judgment about the quality of the search results. He did not say that EEAT was created for SEOs to use as a ranking factor guide, in fact he expressly said that’s not how it works.

What is especially notable is that Mueller says that EEAT comes into play algorithmically for sites that are in topics that affect health or finance, what Google terms Your Money Or Your Life (YMYL) topics.

This is what he said, according to my notes, which contains some paraphrasing:

“EEAT is one of the ways that we look at page quality. EEAT is experience, expertise, authoritativeness and trustworthiness. And this is something that we tell the third party quality raters to watch out for when they’re doing page quality evaluation and something that we take into account when we think the query or a set of pages is on a specific topic where it’s more critical, where we call them your money, your life pages. Where we think that the user actually needs to have something that they can rely on and some signs that they can rely on the content that is present.”

EEAT Is Not Something You Add To Web Pages

In his follow-up statements he dismissed the idea that an SEO can add EEAT to their web pages. EEAT is not something you can add to a website. That’s not how it works. So if adding EEAT is part of what you do for SEO, stop. That’s not SEO.

This is what Mueller said:

“Sometimes SEOs come to us or like mention that they’ve added EEAT to their web pages. That’s not how it works. Sorry, you can’t sprinkle some experiences on your web pages. It’s like, that’s that doesn’t make any sense.”

Photo From Google Search Central Live NYC

EEAT Is Not Needed On Non-YMYL Pages

Lastly, Mueller repeated the point that EEAT is not something that they’re looking for in run of the mill websites. Obviously it’s great if the content has expertise and trustworthiness and so on. But he said it’s not something they’re algorithmically alert for on those kinds of sites, specifically naming recipe sites.

This is what he said:

“From a practical point of view, it’s important to look at this, especially if you’re publishing things on these critical topics, and to look at how you can highlight what it is that you’re already doing so that it’s clear for users.

But if you’re creating a recipe for cookies, you don’t need to have the sidebar with like, ‘this author has created cookies for 27 years.’ I think most people will be able to understand.”

Takeaways

EEAT’s Purpose and Scope

EEAT is used by third-party quality raters to assess search result quality. It was not created by Google as a list of ranking factors for an SEO checklist.

EEAT’s Role in YMYL Topics

Google algorithmically considers EEAT for pages that affect users’ finances or health, which is  referred in the Quality Raters Guidelines  Your Money or Your Life (YMYL) topics. These are the topic areas where reliability and trust are critical for user safety and confidence and where Google is especially concerned that those qualities are expressed in some way internally and/or externally about those sites. Google doesn’t say what those signals are.

Misconceptions About EEAT in SEO

John Mueller emphasized that EEAT is not something SEOs can “add” to a website the way they might add keywords or internal links. Attempting to “add EEAT” is a misunderstanding of how the concept works within search.

EEAT and Non-YMYL Websites

EEAT is not something that is required in an algorithmic context for non-YMYL sites, such as recipe blogs or other kinds of non-critical content. While it’s useful in a general or marketing sense to to reflect expertise and trust, it’s not a ranking focus for most topics.

EEAT is explicitly created for the third party quality raters to use as a more objective benchmark. That fact gets lost in all the conversations by SEOs about the topic of EEAT. It is also something that’s not particularly important for sites that are outside of YMYL topics. Lastly, EEAT is not something that an SEO can add to their page. Creating a bio with an AI generated image, linking it to a fake LinkedIn profile and then calling it EEAT is not a thing. Trustworthiness, for example, is something that is earned and results in people making recommendations (which doesn’t mean that SEOs should create fake social media profiles and start talking about an author at a website). Nobody really knows what the EEAT signals are.

Featured Image by Shutterstock/RealPeopleStudio

Google Says They Launch Thousands Of Updates Every Year via @sejournal, @martinibuster

Google’s John Mueller explained during a session of the Search Central Live NYC event that they do over 700,000 tests per year in order to keep up with user expectations. His explanation of why Google performs so many tests and launches thousands of changes should give SEOs an idea of the pace of change going on at Google and should inspire publishers and SEOs to consider ways that they too can take steps to anticipate user expectations and roll out changes to satisfy them.

Updates Are Not Done In Isolation

The first thing that Mueller said about updates is that they’re not done in isolation but rather they use a third party raters, a fresh pair of eyes, to evaluate their tests and new updates to their algorithms.

Mueller explained:

“So there is a lot of activity happening on the web and we kind of have to keep up with that as well.

How we look at things when it comes to updates, I think this is maybe a bit of a jarring transition here, but essentially when we work on changes with regards to search, one of the things that is core to all of the changes that we do is that we don’t do them in isolation just because we think they’re good, but rather that we find ways to actually test to make sure that they are actually good.

And one of the ways that we do that is we work together with so-called quality raters.”

Number Of Tests And Launched Updates

Google conducts a staggering number of tests every year and launches thousands of changes (updates).

Photo Showing Number of Google Updates Per Year

John Mueller said (includes paraphrasing):

“When it comes to changes that we do this number is from 2023. I imagine the number from last year is similar. We’ve made over 4,700 launches. And these launches come from over 700,000 tests and we make tests all the time. You can try to calculate like how many tests are running every day. If you assume that a test maybe runs for two weeks over the course of the day, like there are lots of tests that are happening in parallel.”

Google Says It’s All About User Expectations

Mueller offered an explanation of what motivates Google to do so many tests and launch so thousands of updates to the search results. He said it’s all about meeting user expectations.

This is what he said:

“And that also means that when people look at the search results, they see things that are sometimes a bit different.

From our point of view it’s not so much that we’re doing all of this work to keep making changes to make it hard for people to keep up, but rather because we see that users have very high expectations of the web and we want to make sure that whatever expectations they have tomorrow we can still kind of fulfill.”

Takeaway For Publishers And SEOs

Google’s not running hundreds of thousands of tests a year to confuse SEOs and publishers. They’re doing it to stay ahead of what users want before users even know they want it.

SEO has historically been reactive, which means that search marketers and publishers wait until Google announces an update and then they run back to their websites and “fix” whatever they think is broken. SEO eyes are always on Google when they should really be thinking ahead about how their consumers or site visitors are aging out or no longer reading blogs and whose habits might be changing. Do you have to wait until Google announces an accessibility update before you test if your site is usable for visitors on screen readers? Are client sites usable for people who are color blind or are you going to wait for an update? That’s reactive.

One of the reasons Google is number one in many things is because they didn’t wait for someone else to do it first. Before GMAIL all email providers gave their users email space measured in megabytes. Google killed their competition because they were offering users gigabytes of free space.

So maybe SEOs and publishers should scroll up and re-read the reasons that John Mueller gave to explain why Google does hundreds of thousands of tests and launches thousands of updates every year. If you’re not already being proactive then I really think that this is the year you start thinking about ways to do that.

Takeaways:

Google’s Testing Volume and Frequency

  • Google performs over 700,000 tests annually.
  • In 2023 alone, these tests led to over 4,700 changes to Search.
  • Tests often run in parallel, with many active at the same time.
  • This volume reflects a continuous, high-speed development cycle.

Why Google Runs So Many Tests

  • Google’s motivation for running so many tests is to anticipate user expectations.
  • Despite their setbacks with AI, the number of tests and changes is the reason why Google remains a formidable competitor.

Implications for SEOs and Publishers

  • Search marketers and publishers who want to keep up with Google should consider emulating Google’s approach to users and look for ways to anticipate user behavior, expectations, and trends.
  • Start testing and improving now rather than waiting for a Google update before accounting for shortcomings.
  • Consider a site audit by a fresh pair of eyes.
Google Shares Valuable SEO Takeaway About Quality Raters Guidelines via @sejournal, @martinibuster

At the recent Search Central Live NYC, Google’s John Mueller discussed the third-party quality raters they use to evaluate changes to Google’s search algorithms. Although it wasn’t stated explicitly, the nuance was implied: keeping a human in the loop remains an important factor in fine-tuning your SEO decisions.

Third Party Quality Raters

Hopefully by now everyone knows that Google employs third-party quality raters to review algorithm changes and provide feedback that can be used to judge the success of various algorithm updates and tests. They don’t actually affect the rankings of individual websites, their judgment are about the effectiveness of the algorithms which themselves affect hundreds of thousands and millions of sites across the Internet.

Ordinarily such judgment calls of whether a site is useful or not are highly subjective (a matter of personal opinion). That’s why Google created a set of guidelines for the quality raters to use so as to standardize the criteria the raters use and make their judgments more objective (like considering facts that are either true or false).

Here is, according to my notes, how John Mueller explained it:

“And one of the ways that we do that is we work together with so-called quality raters. These are external people who review the quality of search results, who review the quality of web pages to let us know, are we in a good place? Are we going in the right direction? Are the changes that we are working on actually making sense and acceptable for you?”

What’s notable about that exchange is that the whole point of judging the algorithms is whether or not they are acceptable to humans.

Mueller next introduced the topic of the quality raters guidelines and how it’s important for SEOs and publishers to read. In fact, he calls it important and encourages anyone concerned about ranking better to at least give it a scan for topics that may be important to the individual.

He continued:

“So we have a set of guidelines that we published for these quality raters, which I think is actually surprisingly important. It’s a gigantic book, something I don’t know, 180 pages long. But it’s a lot of guidelines where we kind of draw out what we think makes sense for quality raters to review with regards to the content. And this is publicly available. You can look at it yourself as well.

I think for most websites it makes sense at least have gone through it, or maybe control F and search through it for keywords that you care about just so that you have a sense of what Google is thinking when they’re making changes.”

The Quality Raters Guidelines Is Not A Handbook Of Ranking Factors

Three are many SEOs who have spread the misinformation that the quality raters guidelines offers a peek into what Google is using for ranking websites. That’s false.

Mueller continues (my paraphrase):

“Obviously quality rater guidelines is not a document that says like, this is how we do ranking, but more just, this is how we review things on the web when we ask for input from these quality raters.

They do a number of different tasks for us and so one of them is page quality where they tell us like, is this a high quality page or not? Another one is to evaluate whether the pages that we show in the search results meet the needs of a user. Which is highly subjective sometimes, but we give them information on what they can do there and the other one is A/B testing, side-by-side testing where we present quality raters with a set of pages before and a set of pages afterwards, and they tell us which one of these is actually better.”

Humans In The Loop

The important takeaway from Mueller’s discussion about the quality raters and the guidelines they use is that how humans react to the search results is at the heart of what Google is doing with their algorithms. Some people tend to think of Google’s algorithms as mechanical machines that are cranking out search results and that’s pretty much what they are but they’re also emulating human judgment about what is and is not spam, what is and is not a high quality search result.

Rote SEO is highly focused on feeding the machine but the machine itself is emulating human judgment. SEO today is more than ever about considering how every choice made about a site affects humans and less about worrying about whether you’ve got enough entity keywords on a page and if the H1 heading is missing.

Human Judgment Is Core to Google’s Algorithm Development

Quality raters are used to judge whether algorithm changes make search results better for people. Algorithms are adjusted based on human reactions, not by machine metrics.

Quality Raters Guidelines Reflect Google’s Values

Google’s Quality Rater Guidelines are not a ranking manual. They define what Google considers useful, high-quality content. They can serve as a mirror that business owners and SEOs can hold up to their own content to see how it aligns with Google’s criteria for high quality.

SEO Today Is About Human Experience

The deeper message buried in what Mueller was talking about is that Google’s algorithms are trying to emulate human judgment, so SEOs should focus on user experience and usefulness, not checklists or busy-work like adding author bios with superfluous information that does nothing for site visitors.

Google Revisits 15% Unseen Queries Statistic In Context Of AI Search via @sejournal, @martinibuster

At Search Central Live NYC, Google’s John Mueller revisited the statistic that 15% of search queries Google sees are completely brand new and have never been encountered. He also addressed what impact the advent of AI has had on the number of novel search queries users are making today.

Understanding Language

Understanding language is important to serving relevant search queries. That means Google needs to understand the nuances of what people mean when they search, which could include unconventional use of specific words or complete misuse of words. BERT is an example of a technology that Google uses to understand user queries.

Google’s introduction to BERT explains:

“We see billions of searches every day, and 15 percent of those queries are ones we haven’t seen before–so we’ve built ways to return results for queries we can’t anticipate.

…Particularly for longer, more conversational queries, or searches where prepositions like “for” and “to” matter a lot to the meaning, Search will be able to understand the context of the words in your query. You can search in a way that feels natural for you.”

Are There More Unknown Search Queries?

In the context of an overview of Google Search John Mueller briefly discussed the statistic of new queries Google search sees and if LLMs have made any impact.

This is, according to my notes, what he said:

“15% of all queries are new every day. This is something that I’m surprised is still the case. I would have thought at some point most of the searches would have been made people just ask the same thing over and over again.

But when when we recalculate these metrics, it’s always around 15%. I imagined maybe with LLM’s and the AI systems that maybe it would be a bit higher in recent years but it’s still hovering around that number..”

He then speculated why that 15% number remains the same, attributing it to things are always changing and that life is not static.

My paraphrase of what Mueller observed:

“It’s fantastic to see because it means to me that people keep going to search and looking for something new… and if people would stop going to search or stop searching new things, and to me that would be a sign that maybe something is wrong here. So this is a great number.”

Curious Outcome

It’s amazing that something as groundbreaking like AI search and the ability to search visually would have added more complex searches that Google has never seen before but that 15% number keeps holding steady.

Google’s SEO Tips For Better Rankings – Search Central Live NYC via @sejournal, @martinibuster

Google’s Search Liaison answered a question at Google Search Central Live NYC about whether Google prefers brands. Sullivan took that as an opportunity to affirm that Google is working to show more independent sites and also offered insights into how independent sites can improve their search performance.

Google Wants Good Independent Sites To Rank

Someone at the Search Central Live NYC event submitted a question asking whether Google was focusing on just showing a smaller set of sites from the Internet that’s limited to big brand sites. Danny Sullivan, aka Google Search Liaison, immediately responded, no. He responded that he understands that there’s a sense that big brands always rank well on Google and that many people say that Google only wants to show big brands.

Google Search Central Live New York City

Photo of Google Search Liaison Danny Sullivan taken at Search Central Live NYC Event

Sullivan acknowledged that this is a valid concern from small independent sites because there are many who are doing good work who aren’t ranking as well as they should be and explained that they were working on it.

The following is a paraphrase based on my notes:

“And we’ve been spending a lot of time (and we’re going to continue to spend a lot of time) to understand how can we do a better job on better understanding and perhaps guiding some of the smaller creators and small independent sites so they can be successful. It has been like a huge chunk of my time over the past year. And I’m not alone in it.

We were just in Zurich last week. We were just out there and we were looking at a bunch of real queries from small creators, independent sites and sitting with the ranking team and going through them and what’s happening here and …we made a note that you know, we have done some changes that we think help and we have done some changes that have helped. We also anticipate working through the whole rest of the year.”

Why Changes Are Incremental

Danny explained that independent sites and their topic areas vary widely which complicates applying a single algorithmic solution to help them all. That explains why Google keeps saying they’re making incremental changes.

According to my notes, he said:

“One of the things I would say is I don’t expect you’re going to suddenly see one day we do a big huge, ‘And here is the independent small site update’ type of thing. I think it’s going be these incremental things that we do, in part because these kinds of sites are not monolithic.”

That Thing You Need To Know About Brands

Danny discussed how serious they are about finding solutions for independent publishers and eventually began speaking of more tangible things that publishers can do to help themselves, specifically about becoming memorable to site visitors.

This is something that I’ve been doing for over twenty years. I never rolled out an affiliate or AdSense site that didn’t have a carefully planned domain name, logo and mascot in place. That mascot is super important because it helps make the site memorable to site users. They’ll forget the domain name but they’ll remember that mascot and the site.

Danny said that Google’s systems are not tuned to identify big brands and rank them well. He acknowledged that sites with a lot of branded searches might rank well and this is the point where it felt like okay, am I really hearing this? It’s the kind of information you come to these events for.

This is a paraphrase from my notes of what Danny said:

“And I’ve seen where people do research and say, ‘I’ve figured out that if you have a lot of branded searches…’ That’s kind of valid in some sense.

But it’s not like you have a lot of big branded searchers or small branded searchers or whatever and you’re finding that correlates to your traffic. What it’s saying is that people have recognized you as a brand, which is a good thing. We like brands. Some brands we don’t like, but at least we recognize them, right?

So if you’re trying to be found in the sea of content and you have the 150,000th fried chicken recipe, it’s very difficult to understand which ones of those are necessarily better than anybody else’s out there.

But if you are recognized as a brand in your field, big, small, whatever, just a brand, then that’s important.

That correlates with a lot of signals of perhaps success with search. Not that you’re a brand but that people are recognizing you. People may be coming to you directly, people, may be referring to you in lots of different ways… You’re not just sort of this anonymous type of thing.

So, one thing I would encourage anybody, but especially to smaller and independent ones that are kind of feeling like the big brands are kind of getting it all is, are you making sure that people understand who you are?”

Differentiate Yourself. A Lot.

Danny Sullivan discussed that users submitted over 13,000 sites with feedback about Google’s algorithm and claimed that he’s confident that he’s looked at more sites than any SEO in the audience has. He acknowledged that many of the submissions had valid concerns but he also said he noticed that some sites that were high quality also lacked that extra bit that made them different and better.

What he was referring to, in my words, not Danny’s, was a clear narrative on the page that lets site visitors know who is behind the site. He wasn’t talking about the sidebar with the bio and a photo that travel and recipe sites all have. He was talking about something that goes beyond the generic narrative that many bloggers use.

This is a paraphrase from my notes about what Danny said:

“I can land on a site and have no idea who runs the site, what the site is about. Who’s behind it? That’s not to say that if you put an ‘about us’ link on your site that now you’ll rank better. But people come to websites from Search and they don’t know what they’re getting into.”

He then contrasted social media to search to show how a forum or a social media site offers a carefully curated experience where you know where everything is at, where expectations are managed. He then said that Search is completely different. While Danny didn’t explicitly say this, I believe what he meant to communicate was that the randomness of sites that Google sends people to can be jarring to users who consequently aren’t sure whether to trust a site. It’s a different experience than the carefully curated experience of a forum or social media site and for that reason it’s important to be able to give a sense of who is behind the site.

This is a paraphrase of what Danny said:

“Search is nothing like that. Search is a grab bag. It’s weird. You don’t know what you’re going to get. It’s like I’m feeling lucky. You don’t know what you’re going to end up with.”

And please, I beg you, especially those of you that said that Google wants everything to be the same. That’s not what we want. We don’t want every website to be a cookie cutter site.

We want you to build websites that you think makes sense for your readers.

Anytime you ever have a question about what you should be doing to be successful in Google search and your answer is to ask if it’s a good thing for your readers, if you do that, you are aligning with the things we’re trying to do because we’re trying to send people to satisfying content so that they go, ‘This was great! This is wonderful, I loved it!’

So when they wind up on your website, probably for the first time and they don’t know you from anything and they’re coming from this crazy world where they don’t even know where the profiling for the author is, make it easy for them. Make it easy for them to come into the site and know exactly what you’re about.

I know the travel bloggers, you all have the thing on the side that says, ‘we love travelling the world…’ It’s like, OK, that’s fine and at least people know to expect that from travel bloggers and you’ve got it there.

But help them understand what’s unique or different about you, that makes you a brand. And that is a really good thing.”

Insights From Search Central Live NYC

Google Actively Supports Independent Sites

Danny Sullivan said multiple times that Google is spending a significant amount of time into improving the algorithm so that more independent publishers will attain visibility in search. However these improvements are incremental because of the wide variety of sites and topics makes it so that one change won’t affect all sites equally.

Brand Recognition Drives Search Success

Being recognized as a brand to site visitors is a quality that highly successful sites tend to have. It’s not that cultivating a brand is a ranking factor, but rather that cultivating site users leads to stronger search signals.

Differentiation Is Important

Some high-quality sites fail to stand out because they do what they think they do what everyone else is doing. Site visitors may appreciate more effort to make it clearer who is behind the site. An example of something to consider avoiding are things like rote generic bios in favor of providing a real sense of why the site is important or matters.

Clarity Builds Trust

Recognize that the web has an element of randomness that make some site visitors wary about visiting a site for the first time. Design with this understanding in mind.

Design for the Reader, Not the Algorithm

One of the most common mistakes I see by publishers is that they can list all of the things they did for SEO but very little if anything that they did for their site visitors. Danny Sullivan recommends basing decisions on whether a change is good for the site visitors because that will align it with the kinds of sites Google wants to rank.

Google Completes March 2025 Core Update Rollout via @sejournal, @MattGSouthern

Google officially completed the rollout of its March 2025 Core Update today at 5:34 AM PDT, ending two weeks of significant volatility in search rankings.

This update began on March 13 and has created notable shifts in search visibility across various sectors and website types.

Widespread Impact Observed

Data collected during the update’s rollout period revealed some of the most volatile search engine results pages (SERPs) in the past 12 months, according to tracking from Local SEO Guide.

Their system, which monitors 100,000 home services keywords, showed unprecedented movement beginning the week of March 10th.

SISTRIX’s Google Update Radar confirmed these findings, detecting substantial changes across UK and US markets starting March 16th.

Forum Content Recalibration

One of the most significant trends emerging from this update is a recalibration of how Google values forum content.

After approximately 18 months of heightened visibility for forum websites following Google’s mid-2023 “hidden gems” update, many forum sites are now experiencing substantial drops in visibility.

SEO strategist Lily Ray highlighted this trend, noting steep visibility declines for platforms like proboards.com, which hosts numerous forum websites.

Ray pointed out that while Reddit continues gaining visibility, many other forum sites that benefited from the 2023 algorithm changes are now diminishing their rankings.

“The SEO glory days of ‘just be a forum and you’ll rank’ might be coming to an end,” Ray observed.

Additional Patterns Identified

Andrew Shotland, CEO of Local SEO Guide, identified several other potential patterns in this update:

  1. Forum Content Devaluation: While Reddit remains strong, other forums are seeing their previously gained visibility disappear.
  2. Programmatic Content Penalties: Sites creating large volumes of programmatic pages, particularly those designed specifically for SEO rather than user value, are experiencing significant declines.
  3. Cross-Sector Impact: Unlike some updates that target specific industries, this core update has affected sites across retail, government, forums, and content publishers.

Industry professionals commenting on the update have noted the potential connection to Google’s broader efforts to improve search result diversity and combat low-value content.

This recalibration may also relate to the ongoing integration of AI-generated content in search results.

What This Means for SEO

With the update now complete, SEO professionals can begin to assess the full impact on their sites and implement appropriate strategies.

For those managing forum content, this update signals the importance of quality over quantity and suggests that simply having forum content is no longer sufficient for strong rankings.

Sites negatively impacted by the update should focus on improving content quality, removing programmatic or low-value pages, and ensuring their content genuinely addresses user needs rather than being created primarily for search engines.

Search Engine Journal will continue to monitor the aftermath of this core update and provide additional analysis as more data becomes available.

Top SEO Shares How To Win In The Era Of Google AI via @sejournal, @martinibuster

Jono Alderson, former head of SEO at Yoast and now at Meta, spoke on the Majestic Podcast about the state of SEO, offering insights on the decline of traditional content strategies and the rise of AI-driven search. He shared what SEOs should be doing now to succeed in 2025.

Decline Of Generic SEO Content

Generic keyword-focused SEO content, as well as every SEO tactic, has always been on a slow decline, arguably beginning with statistical analysis, machine learning and then into the age of AI-powered search. Citations from Google are now more precise and multimodal.

Alderson makes the following points:

  • Writing content for the sake of ranking is becoming obsolete because AI-driven search results provide those answer.
  • Many industries and topics like dentists and recipes sites have an oversaturation of nearly identical content that doesn’t add value.

According to Alderson:

“…every single dentist site I looked at had a tedious blog that was quite clearly outsourced to a local agency that had an article about Top 8 tips for cosmetic dentistry, etc.

Maybe you zoom out how many dentists are there in every city in the world, across how many countries, right? Every single one of those websites has the same mediocre article that somebody has done some keyword research. Spotted a gap they think they can write one that’s slightly better than their competitors. And yet in aggregate, we’ve created 10 million pages that none of which show the purpose, all of which are fundamentally the same, none of which are very good, none of which add new value to the corpse of the Internet.

All of that stops working because Google can just answer those kinds of queries in situ.”

Google Is Deprioritizing Redundant Content

Another good point he makes is that the days where redundant pages have a chance are going away. For example, Danny Sullivan explained at Search Central Live New York that many of the links shown in some of the AI Overviews aren’t related to the keyword phrase but are related to the topic, providing access to the next kind of information that a user would be interested in after they’d ingested the answer to their question. So, rather than show five or eight links to pages that essentially say the same thing Google is now showing links to a variety of topics. This is an important thing publishers and SEOs need to wrap their minds around, which you can read more about here: Google Search Central Live NYC: Insights On SEO For AI Overviews.

Alderson explained:

“I think we need to stop assuming that producing content is a kind of fundamental or even necessary part of modern SEO. I think we all need to take a look at what our content marketing strategies and playbooks look like and really ask the questions of what is the role of content and articles in a world of ChatGPT and AI results and where Google can synthesize answers without needing our inputs.

…And in fact, one of the things that Google is definitely looking for, and one of the things which will be safe to a degree from this AI revolution, is if you can publish, if you can move quickly, if you can produce stuff at a better depth than Google can just synthesize, if you can identify, discover, create new information and new value.

There is always space for that kind of content, but there’s definitely no value if what you’re doing is saying, ‘every month we will produce four articles focusing on a given keyword’ when all 10,000 of our competitors employ somebody who looks like us to produce the same article.”

How To Use AI For Content

Alderson discouraged the use of AI for producing content, saying that it tends to produce a “word soup” in which original ideas get lost in the noise. He’s right, we all know what AI-generated content looks like when we see it. But I think that what many people don’t notice is the extra garbage-y words and phrases AI uses that have lost their impact from overuse. Impactful writing is what supports engagement, and original ideas are what make content stand apart. These are the two things AI is absolutely rubbish at.

Alderson notes that Google may have anticipated the onslaught of AI-generated content by emphasizing EEAT (Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness and Trustworthiness and argues that AI can be helpful.

He observed:

“And a lot of the changes we’re seeing in Google might well be anticipating that future. All of the EEAT stuff, all of the product review stuff, is designed to combat a world where there’s an infinite amount of recursive nonsense.

So definitely avoid the temptation to be using the tools just to produce. Use them as assistance and muses to bounce ideas around with and then do the heavy thinking yourself.”

The Shift from Content Production to Content Publishing

Jono encouraged content publishers to focus on creating original research, expert insights, to show things that have gone unnoticed. He suggested that succesful publishers are the ones who get out in the world and experience what they’re writing about through original research. He also encouraged focusing on authoritative voices rather than settling for generic content.

He explained:

“I think there’s definitely room to publish good content and publish. 2015-ish everyone started saying become a publisher and the whole industry misinterpreted that to mean write lots of articles. When actually you look at successful publishers, what they do is original research, by experts, they break news, they visit the places, they interact with things. A lot of what Google’s looking for in those kind of EEAT criteria, it describes the act of publishing. Yet very little of SEO actually publishes. They just produce And I think if you …close that gap there is definitely value.

And in fact, one of the things that Google is definitely looking for, and one of the things which will be safe to a degree from this AI revolution, is if you can publish, if
you can move quickly, if you can produce stuff at a better depth than Google can just synthesize.”

What does that mean in terms of a content strategy? One of the things that bothers me is the lack of originality in content. Things like concluding paragraphs with headings like “Why We Care” drive me crazy because to me it indicates a rote approach to content.

I was researching how to flavor shrimp for sautéing and every recipe site says to sprinkle seasonings on the shrimp prior to a quick sauté at a medium high heat, which burns the seasonings. Out of the thousands of recipe sites out there, not one can figure out that you can sauté the shrimp, add some garlic, then when it’s done add the seasoning just after turning off the flame? And if you ask AI how to do it the AI will tell you to burn your seasonings because that’s what everyone else says.

What that all means is that publishers and SEOs should focus on hands-on original research and unique insights instead of regurgitating what everyone else is saying. If you follow directions and it comes out poorly maybe the directions are wrong and that’s an opportunity to do something original.

SEO’s Role in Brand-Building & Audience Engagement

When asked what the role of content is in a world where AI is producing summaries, Alderson suggested that publishers and SEOs need to get ahead of the point where consumers are asking questions, go back to before they ask those questions.

He answered:

“Yeah, it’s really tricky because the kind of content that we’re producing there is going to change. It’s not not going to be the “8 Tips For X” in the hope the 2% of that audience convert. It’s not going to work anymore.

You’re going to need to go much higher up the funnel and much earlier into the research cycle. And the role of content will need to change to not try and convert people who are at the point of purchase or ready to make a decision, but to influence what happens next for the people who are at the very start of those journeys.

So what you can do is, for example, I know this is radical, but audience research, find out what kind of questions people in your sector had six months before they purchased or the kind of frustrations and challenges- what do they wish they’d known when they’d started to engage upon those processes?”

Turning that into a strategy, it may mean that SEOs and publishers may want to shift away from focusing solely on transactional keywords and toward developing content that builds brand trust early. As Jono recommends, conduct audience research to identify what potential customers are thinking about months before they are ready to buy and then create content that builds long-term familiarity.

The Changing Nature of SEO Metrics & Attribution

Alderson goes on to offer a critique about the overreliance on conversion-based metrics like last-click attribution. He suggests that the focus on proving success by showing that a user didn’t return to the search results page is outdated because SEO should be influencing earlier stages of the customer journey

“You look at the the kind of there’s increasing belief that attribution as a whole is a bit of a pseudoscience and that as the technology gets harder to track all the pieces together, it becomes increasingly impossible to produce an overarching picture of what are the influences of all these pieces.

You’ve got to go back to conventional marketing …You’ve got to look at actually, does this influence what people think and feel about our brand and our logo and our recall rather than going, ‘how many clicks did we get out of, how many impressions and how many sales?’ Because if you’re competing there, you’re probably too late.

You need to be influencing people much higher the funnel. So, yeah… All, everything we’ve ever learned in the nineteen fifties and sixties about marketing, that is how we measure what good SEO looks like. Yeah, it looks like maybe we need to step back from some of the more conventional measures.”

Turning that into a strategy means that maybe it’s a good exercise to rethink traditional success metrics and start looking at customer sentiment rather than just search rankings.

Radical Ideas For A Turning Point In History

Jono Alderson prefaced his recommendation for doing audience research with the phrase, “I know this is radical…” and what he proposes is indeed radical but not in the sense that he’s proposing something extreme. His suggestions are radical in the sense that he’s pointing out that what used to be common sense in SEO (like keyword research, volume-driven content production, last-click attribution) is increasingly losing relevance to how people seek out information today. The takeaway is that adapting means rethinking SEO to the point that it goes back to its roots in marketing.

Watch Jono Alderson speak on the Majestic SEO podcast:

Stop assuming that ‘producing content’ is a necessary component of modern SEO – Jono Alderson

Featured Image/Screenshot of Majestic Podcast

The Top SEO Podcasts For 2025 via @sejournal, @martinibuster

This year’s selection of podcasts reflects a growing sophistication and expertise in the industry, a reaction to the intensity of pressure from AI and the erosion of organic search.

The following SEO podcasts have been chosen for their grasp of what’s happening right now, publishing frequency, and willingness to embrace a more expansive perspective on all aspects of search marketing.

1. Crawling Mondays by Aleyda Solis

  • Host: Aleyda Solis.

Crawling Mondays is by International SEO specialist Aleyda Solis. Her podcast covers the latest news related to SEO every Monday.

Aleyda also publishes special episodes on topics that matter to digital marketers. Recent episodes featured an interview with Danny Sullivan, a discussion on whether ecommerce sites should produce informational content, how to to achieve programmatic content that’s not spammy and an in-depth discussion of JavaScript SEO.

Available on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube

2. Good Signals SEO Office Hours Podcast

  • Hosts: Michael Chidzey, Jo Turnbull, Ruth Turnbull.

The affable hosts of the Good Signals SEO Office Hours podcast step into the gap left by Google’s essentially defunct SEO Office Hours show, offering their own take on discussing user-submitted questions. Every week features different guests, lending each episode a fresh perspective on SEO and a sense of community.

Watch on YouTube.

3. SERPs Up

  • Hosts: Crystal Carter & Mordy Oberstein.

SERPs Up is a Wix SEO podcast focusing on questions and how-to’s relevant to publishers, in-house teams, agencies, and freelance search marketing professionals. They publish episodes weekly, with each episode lasting about thirty minutes, making them easy to commit to during those small pockets of free time.

Each episode covers a novel topic useful to most professionals. Recent episodes have focused on subjects like unifying offline and online marketing, thinking beyond algorithms, whether there’s such a thing as too much data, and email marketing.

Listen to the SERPs Up podcast on Amazon, Apple, and Spotify

4. The Majestic SEO Podcast

  • Host: David Bain

The Majestic SEO Podcast is a long-running and prolific podcast hosted by David Bain. It focuses on a diverse range of topics that are directly and indirectly related to SEO, including accessibility, user experience, AI search trends, and SEO itself. Their treatment of SEO is expansive, covering topics ranging from mining the sales team for customer insights to omnichannel marketing and examining what the phrase ‘Expert Content’ really means.

Host David Bain also looks ahead at developing trends by exploring concepts like agentic AI. Some episodes take a broader approach, stepping outside traditionally considered SEO topics—such as an interview with a psychology expert on how psychological principles could be applied to SEO.

SEO is a highly subjective field, and it’s easy for biases to narrow the range of discussion. That’s why it’s refreshing that Bain takes an expansive approach, welcoming a wide variety of guests and perspectives to the Majestic SEO Podcast.

Available on Spotify and YouTube.

5. Webcology

  • Hosts: Jim Hedger and Kristine Schachinger.

Kristine Schachinger and Jim Hedger, hosts of one of the longest-running SEO podcasts, discuss the latest news and issues top of mind in the SEO community. Both hosts have decades of experience and draw from a deep well of knowledge, giving each topic the benefit of their considerable expertise.

Listen to new episodes on Apple,  Spotify, and RedCircle.

6. The SEO Mindset Podcast

  • Hosts: Tazmin Suleman and Sarah McDowell.

Hosts Sarah and Tazmin publish a weekly podcast about the experiences of life as a search marketing professional. Recent episodes discuss how to create a successful conference speaker pitch, how to enjoy networking, and how to make time for breaks. Google and its competitors never sleep. How does one keep up while also balancing career growth and personal fulfillment?

Covering both the personal and professional sides of the industry, their discussions provide insights, advice, and relatable stories for listeners navigating similar paths.

Listen to the SEO Mindset Podcast at Amazon Music, Apple, and Spotify.

7. IMHO SEO / SEO Pioneers

Host: Shelley Walsh

IMHO is a bi-weekly show where experts offer their ‘IMHO’ on current topics to get a diverse range of approaches and perspective to the same topics. The short format is around 15 minutes aimed at time-poor marketers who don’t have an hour to spare but want to keep up with expert opinions in SEO.

Recent topics include discussions about how AI is impacting SEO with guests such as Pedro Dias, Mark Williams-Cook, Dawn Anderson, Jono Alderson, Arnout Hellemans, Crystal Carter, and more.

Also worth listening to is the less regular SEO Pioneers series where Shelley interviews search marketing experts, about the history of SEO. It’s a great way to understand what’s happening from the unique perspective of experience and time.

John Mueller even credited the show as ‘one to watch’ on Google Search News.

Listen and watch both IMHO and SEO Pioneers on YouTube.

8. Near Memo Podcast

  • Hosts: Greg Sterling, Mike Blumenthal.

The Near Memo podcast discusses Local Search SEO, covering both current developments and broader industry trends. Recent episodes have explored Google Business Profile (GBP) issues, AI’s role in local search, and the growing challenge of review fraud, providing insights that help businesses and marketers stay on top.

Recent episode topics explored Google Business Profiles, new Google Maps features, and navigating Google reviews.  Hosts Greg Sterling and Mike Blumenthal bring decades of experience to the podcast, and it shows.

Listen at: AmazonApple, PandoraSpotifyYouTube.

9. Marketing O’Clock

  • Hosts: Greg Finn, Jessica Budde, Christine ‘Shep’ Zirnheld, and Julia Meteer.

The Marketing O’Clock podcast delivers news and insights about paid advertising, as well as topics related to search and eCommerce. In an industry that can sound like an echo chamber, Marketing O’Clock offers its own unique blend of news, making it a great way to keep up with current events that may have been overlooked. Recent topics include Instagram’s new advertising format that enables creators to get paid and Bitly’s addition of interstitial advertising to shortened URLs.

Their podcast is released every Friday. Add it to your calendar and tune in to the latest episodes.

Listen to new episodes on Apple, and Spotify, and YouTube.

10. Google Search Off The Record

  • Hosts: Gary Illyes, John Mueller, Lizzi Sassman, Martin Splitt.

Search Off the Record is an informal podcast about search and SEO from Google’s perspective. Topics range from a behind-the-scenes look at search crawlers and indexing to the considerations that went into rewriting Google’s SEO Starter Guide, search ranking updates, and the concept of quality in search.

Two factors make Google’s podcast notable:

  • Variety: There’s no other podcast that relates search and SEO from the search engine’s point of view.
  • Authoritative source: The fact that it’s created by Google is a compelling reason to tune in.

The podcasts tend to ramble in the beginning with some extended banter and kidding around. But once the hosts get going, the insights start.

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and in the Google Search Central YouTube channel.

11. EDGE Of The Web

  • Host: Erin Sparks.

Edge Of The Web offers a roundup of the week’s SEO news with coverage of topics like Google updates, LinkedIn analytics, content authenticity, and Meta advertising, plus guests like Paula Mejia of Wix, Lidia Infante, and Britney Muller.

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.

12. Search With Candour

  • Host: Jack Chambers-Ward.

UK-based Jack Chambers-Ward hosts a wide-ranging SEO podcast that sometimes offers challenging points of view, proving that SEO is a truly subjective topic. Recent episodes featured guests like Mordy Oberstein discussing branded search and a lively discussion with Itamar Blauer about Google and AI Search, raising the question of how much trust must erode before Google starts losing market share. Some of the topics explored invite different perspectives, and the podcast is at its best when embracing that dynamic.

Listen on Apple, Spotify, and watch on YouTube.

13. Clarity Digital Podcast

  • Host: Al Sefati

Clarity Digital podcast is a relatively new podcast that’s been highly active for the past few months. Its guests have decades of experience across a range of marketing topics that cover SEO and adjacent topics, reflecting the reality that modern SEO and marketing are intersecting more now than at any other time in search marketing history.

Recent episodes covered AI’s role in writing with Amanda Clark, branding and SEO strategies with Ash Nallawalla, and modern social advertising tactics with Akvile DeFazio.

Watch the podcast on YouTube.

2025 SEO Podcast Shows

There are a few new additions this year, and a few dropped off because they stopped publishing. This year’s list is the strongest to date because of the high quality of the commentary and the wide topics covered which will appeal to search marketing professionals, business owners and creators.

More resources:


Featured Image: Jacob Lund/Shutterstock

The Shift To Zero-Click Searches: Is Traffic Still King? via @sejournal, @wburton27

The world of SEO has changed, especially with the rise of zero-click searches, where users get their answers directly on Google’s search results page without clicking through to any websites.

A study from SparkTaro found that zero-click searches accounted for nearly 60% of Google searches ending without a click in 2024.

This trend will continue to reshape the digital landscape and force marketers to adapt their strategies, but is traffic still king? Let’s explore.

Before we get into it, here are the most common types of zero click searches:

  • Featured Snippets: These are snippets of text that appear at the top of the SERP, that provide direct answers to specific questions. This could be in the form of paragraphs, lists, or tables.
  • Knowledge Panels: These information boxes appear on the side of the SERP, providing a quick overview of entities like people, places, or organizations.
  • Direct Answers: These are concise answers to simple questions, such as “How Hot Will It Be Today?” or “How many feet are in 36 inches?”
  • People Also Ask (PAA): This section displays related questions that users frequently ask, with answers provided directly on the SERP that are expandable.
  • Local Packs: For local searches, Google displays a map with business listings and information, allowing users to find what they need without clicking through to individual websites.
  • AI Overviews: Answers to queries that are generated by AI, which give a quick overview of a topic searched.
  • Calculators And Converters: Google provides built-in tools for calculations and conversions, eliminating the need to visit external websites. For example, a search for ‘calculator’ brings up a mathematical calculator in the SERPs.
  • Definitions: When searching for the meaning of a word, the dictionary definition is often displayed directly on the SERP.

Here is the evolution of zero-click searches:

Year Description
2004 Google Local was introduced.
2007 Universal Search was launched.
2008 Google Suggest (Autocomplete) was introduced.
2010 Google Instant was launched.
2012 Knowledge Panels/Graphs were introduced.
2013 Quick Answers were introduced.
2015 Local Map Packs and People Also Ask were introduced.
2017 Google enhanced Knowledge Panels, and Google Posts were introduced.
2018 Featured Snippets and People Also Ask became more prominent.
2019 Zero-click searches passed the 50% mark in browsers.
2020 Knowledge Graph and Knowledge Panels were reintroduced
2021 Passages Ranking was introduced, and  64.82% of Google searches were zero-click.
2023 Google refined and expanded zero-click features.
2024 AI Overviews were introduced.

Can Zero Click Impact My Organic Traffic?

Yes, with the rise of zero click, it could impact your website traffic, and here is why.

  • If a user finds the answer to their query by a featured snippet or AI overview directly in the SERPs, they don’t need to click through to your website if the information matches what they were looking for. In this case, this could cause a decrease in organic traffic to your site.
  • For certain industries, such as news and health, this could have a detrimental impact on site traffic unless you’re optimized for AI overviews and users click through to your site if they need more information.
  • If you’re a brand that is well optimized and has conversational content, great content experience, and is optimized for featured snippets, then you may experience an increase in organic traffic. However, some publishers report increased traffic from AI overview citations.
  • The expansion of AIOs, and their in-depth answers and size, takes up a whole lot of organic real estate.
Screenshot from search for [what is a featured snippet], Google, February 2025

Adapting To Zero-Click Marketing

Just because your site may experience a decline in clicks, don’t throw in the towel just yet. It’s time to adapt your SEO strategy, and of course, in today’s landscape, you have to be everywhere your audience is.

Brands need to stop thinking about Google and think about social networks like Reddit, Quora, TikTok, YouTube, and others, in addition to optimizing AI Overviews.

While AIOs may result in fewer clicks to your website, if you show up in AIO and someone does click on your website, they are probably more qualified and more likely to convert.

Increase In Traffic From AI Citations

Some brands are reporting an increase in traffic from AI citations because they show up as links within AIO citations.

An example of this would be a search for AI SEO software.

Notice that brands like Backlinko, benefit from a link in the AIO. This can generate more brand awareness and traffic because it is an authority domain and is well optimized for AIOs.

Screenshot from search for [ai seo software], Google, February 2025

Is Traffic Still King?

In my opinion, traffic is not king; it is queen unless traffic is your main key performance indicator (KPI).

Unlike paid traffic, traffic generated through organic search is still free and can provide long-term results for years to come.

Conversions are king if you have a site that depends upon converting website visitors to customers.

If your site depends upon growing the number of organic visitors, then traffic may be king based on your business model because it can increase members, drive up ad revenue, and increase subscriptions.

I spoke with a client the other day who said they got a lot of traffic from their SEO and paid search campaign. When I looked at the conversions, there were only a few over the last six months, and they are a lead-focused business.

If SEO is not driving leads and conversions and resulting in paying customers, then traffic does not matter. SEO is all about driving high-quality traffic that converts into customers.

Although, in most cases, zero-click traffic does not drive users directly to your website, you can reap the benefits of it if you show up as an AI citation or the answer to the snippet itself.

You can improve your brand awareness if you show up as the search results for zero-click results, resulting in more users recognizing your brand and potentially lift conversions.

While zero click results may not directly drive organic traffic to your site, demonstrating expertise and the authority gained from awareness can drive higher conversion rates when users do visit your site.

SEO Is Not Dead

SEO and organic traffic are not dead; it has just evolved.

With the rise of AI overviews and changing user behavior, end users are asking questions in social discovery channels like TikTok, YouTube, and Reddit as part of their search journey. And, you need to be everywhere your brand is.

SEO can no longer sit in a vacuum all by itself and must be a part of a fully integrated strategy,

How Can I Adapt My Strategy To Win  

A good rule of thumb is to always create high-quality content that people can consume.

Focus on creating content that is conversational, directly answers user questions, is accurate and factual, and is marked up with structured data.

  1. Continue to optimize for featured snippets and knowledge panels.
  2. Create more comprehensive and conversational content that answers related questions, i.e., FAQs, etc.
  3. Focus on branded searches.
  4. Think outside Google and focus on social discovery channels like Reddit, YouTube, etc.
  5. Optimize your local SEO and Google Business Profile listings.

How To Measure Success

To measure the success of zero click, your metrics should focus on:

  • Most of the main SEO tools provide good reporting to see if you can be visible for AI Overviews and zero-click searches.
  • Focus on impressions and conversions. As I mentioned, SEO is all about driving traffic that converts into customers.
  • See if you get more brand mentions and citations in AI overviews and featured snippets.

Wrapping Up

Optimizing zero-click is critical to being competitive today, especially as search engines refine their ability to answer user queries directly.

While zero-click searches are rising and becoming the new standard, especially where there are AI Overviews, SEO professionals and digital marketers must adapt and update strategies to focus on visibility, brand awareness, and providing value directly within search results and social platforms.

This is especially true as user behavior continues to change and users are expecting a faster, easier way to satisfy their information needs.

More Resources:


Featured Image: Dean Drobot/Shutterstock