Mar 21 2026
Ditch the Discount, Says Brand Marketer

Since 2013 Cherene Aubert has managed, advised, and executed ecommerce marketing campaigns. She’s worked for agencies, merchants, and as a freelance consultant. Her D2C advisory firm, Growth Capital, helps scale premium, high-growth brands.

Experience guides her advice. Brands are too quick to discount slow-moving products, she says. Bundles or buy-one-get-one offers are often better. Higher-priced goods typically appeal to existing customers, not new ones. Influencers drive acquisition.

She shared those views and more in our recent conversation. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Tell us what you do.

Cherene Aubert: I’m the founder and CEO of Growth Capital, a marketing agency for consumer brands.

I’ve spent a lot of time in ecommerce. I was head of strategy at Common Thread Collective, a D2C-focused agency. Before that, I held senior marketing roles at Ilia Beauty, a skincare company, and Bobbie, an infant formula brand — among others.

Bandholz: Describe an effective offer that doesn’t erode margins.

Aubert: It’s hard enough to get someone to buy something online. I’ve done a lot of market research for omnichannel brands, and, generally, a top discovery source is social media. But the number one sales channel is still physical retail.

So D2C brands must understand that consumers often buy online when there’s no other choice.

In beauty categories, products expire or are discontinued for many reasons. Perhaps the product breaks easily, or customers don’t like the finish. So we have to get rid of it.

The first reaction is often “let’s just discount this thing to move it.” But what you’re doing is making it accessible to new customers, but it won’t be the best experience. You’re selling a product that everyone hates.

A better option might be to offer a product everyone loves, then include the discontinued item for free. Customer expectations of that item are already low because we’re stating it has no value. Rather than 50% off a terrible product, they pay 100% for an amazing product, which includes the discontinued item that would be trashed anyway.

Testing offers requires nuanced thought about the customer experience.

Bandholz: What are the best promos for slow-moving products?

Aubert: Say you have a slower mover that’s a core part of your collection. This is where bundling can be effective. You’re positioning the customer to buy the one thing she wants and receive five other things.

In beauty, bundles might be everything you need for a five-minute face. In food products, it’s a sampler kit or perhaps a morning routine bundle.

Bandholz: How do you promote a bundled offer?

Aubert: Start with what you’re trying to achieve. For example, are you looking to reduce your customer acquisition cost or, instead, increase average order value? Those two goals often pull each other apart. The more you reduce your CAC, the more your AOV goes down, and the more you increase your AOV, the higher your CAC goes.

Be very clear about the best customer experience and who the offer is for. Should new customers buy everything all at once? Or do they buy a trial product or an introductory kit to get them involved in the brand?

An introductory kit could be available via a pop-up or accessible through navigation. Higher AOV offers generally appeal to existing customers, reachable via email and SMS. Partnering with an influencer can be a good way to design higher-priced items. There’s unlimited opportunity for experimentation.

Brands should not be reliant on special offers. The aim should be full-price transactions for as long as possible.

External, direct-response ads work best for single products. A video ad with multiple products is really a brand ad and less of a direct response.

Channel selection depends on the product category and the business stage. TikTok is one of the best awareness platforms. TikTok Shop is not the most profitable channel, but it’s a way to get affiliate influencer content at scale. Often, the hardest thing for brands is generating a lot of content.

I work with brands that use influencer affiliates as their primary acquisition driver, and Meta for retargeting and AOV products. Meta often has better marketing efficiency ratios. Oddly, CACs on Meta are sometimes better on non-acquisition campaigns.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you, hire you?

Aubert: Our site is GrowthCapital.co. Follow me on X or LinkedIn.

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Mar 14 2026
How Vessi Sells Waterproof Shoes

Ray Hua is the director of ecommerce at Vessi, a Canada-based direct-to-consumer seller of waterproof sneakers. The brand launched in 2017 after its founders developed and patented breathable fabric that repels water. Ray joined the company in 2021.

In our recent conversation, he shared the challenges of targeting the right audience, cross-border selling, diversifying, and more.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Give us a quick rundown of who you are and what you do.

Ray Hua: I’m the director of ecommerce at Vessi, a direct-to-consumer waterproof sneaker brand. I oversee strategies for site experiences, performance, merchandising, and lifecycle marketing. It’s been with the company for about five years.

Vessie launched nine years ago. Our founders developed and patented a lightweight, waterproof, and breathable fabric called Dyma-tex. People assume waterproof means it is not breathable. But our product is comfortable and looks like a regular sneaker.

During the pandemic, we gifted our product to healthcare workers. We received a lot of positive feedback from other communities, so we collaborated with niche networks to offer our products at a discount.

We’ve hired a lot of paid influencers in categories where folks are on their feet all day. We have tiers of influencers. Some have dedicated landing pages; others are for getting our name out.

We invest heavily in Meta for customer acquisition. We’re looking to diversify into Google and TikTok Shop. We’ve advertised on TikTok and even Reddit. Both drove a lot of traffic, but the quality was not very high. We couldn’t easily attribute revenue coming from those channels.

Bandholz: Vessi now sells apparel.

Hua: It’s more of an experiment in response to feedback in our customer surveys. Many mentioned expanding into apparel, socks, and accessories. They like our technology and want items that are fashionable and functional.

So we’re testing those categories for additional revenue. It hasn’t been smooth. We developed apparel that performed poorly and diverted resources from our footwear line.

Still, it was a good experiment and demonstrated the steep learning curve for a category we are not familiar with.

Bandholz: Vessi has warehouses in Canada and the U.S. Do you market differently to consumers in those countries?

Hua: Yes, we use different ads for each market. People in Canada know our brand. Our messaging to them is typically announcements about dropping new colors or limited editions.

We’re not as prominent in the U.S. Our ads there introduce the brand and explain the product’s benefits. Seattle is probably our best region in the U.S. It’s close to Vancouver and gets a lot of rain. We’re also strong in Florida, however, which is both sunny and rainy.

Bandholz: Does AI influence your marketing efforts?

Hua: We’re using AI tools mostly for operations. For example, we use AI to identify influencers aligned with our interests.

We’ve dabbled in AI to produce ad copy. We haven’t gone into AI-generated images or videos, mainly because we have strict brand guidelines.

Bandholz: Where can people find you, support you, buy your products?

Hua: Check out our products at Vessi.com. I’m on LinkedIn.

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Mar 7 2026
From Teacher to Fashion Brand Founder

In 2019 Nasrin Jafari was a middle school teacher in New York City. She had no ecommerce experience but was drawn to creating and building, which led her to sew and sell face masks during Covid.

Fast forward to 2026, and Mixed, her direct-to-consumer fashion brand, designs and produces female apparel and accessories. Referring to the company’s launch, she told me, “I had no idea how to make clothes.”

She does now, impressively, with multiple manufacturers, a thriving community, staff, and eager customers. She shared her story in our recent conversation.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: What do you do?

Nasrin Jafari: I’m the founder and designer of Mixed, a fashion brand based in Brooklyn. Before Mixed, I was a middle school history and English teacher with no background in ecommerce. During the pandemic, I began sewing face masks by hand and posting them on Instagram. That was the first physical product I had sold. That experiment evolved into a full apparel brand.

It all began with Instagram posts, not Etsy or marketplaces. I didn’t understand Meta ads or ecommerce marketing. I’ve learned those pieces as the business grew.

Creativity has always been part of my life. I painted and took art electives growing up, and I was a competitive dancer in high school. Yet I’ve always been drawn to business and building things. In college, those interests merged into a desire to build something meaningful. I thought that might be as a school teacher.

In many ways, building a brand is similar to teaching. You’re creating a vision, culture, and community around shared values. Mixed reflects my identity — I’m Japanese, Iranian, and American. The brand name captures that blend of influences and the balance between creativity and operating a business.

Bandholz: Fashion seems highly competitive.

Jafari: I started the business out of curiosity. I had no idea what I was getting into. Would I choose to go into apparel again? Probably not, although there’s a side of it I love.

I learned by doing. Inventory is really tricky. I was afraid of overordering inventory and ending up with dead stock. That’s why we launched a pre-order model. We now do a lot of pre-orders, which helps our cash flow, but I didn’t start it for that reason. It was because I was out of stock. Then I realized that the model is great for business.

Another thing is returns, which are a big part of online apparel. We have to acquire customers in a way that accounts for returns. I didn’t understand that initially. Again, it comes down to learning by doing.

Bandholz: You design your apparel. Where is it manufactured?

Jafari: I was looking for factories during Covid. Many of them had excess capacity. I found a factory in India whose owner was based here in New York. So that was an in-person element to build trust and a relationship. He was willing to work with us with no minimum order quantities.

His cost was higher than, say, Los Angeles-based manufacturers, but we still maintained a 75% margin. Our average order is about $228.

We’ve since scaled and can order larger quantities. We’ve added factories with lower costs.

I found the India factory by googling. After that, it was recommendations from friends in the industry, which I prefer. They worked with them, vetted them, and liked them.

Bandholz: What is your production and design process?

Jafari: I had no idea how to make clothes. I literally went to JoAnn Fabrics and tried to follow the pattern. I realized quickly I wasn’t good at it, and it was going to take time. I had connected with a home sewer on Instagram. She seemed to love our brand but had not worked in a commercial capacity. I asked her to make our initial samples. She was thrilled. She made the initial samples, one of which remains our best-selling product.

Now I’m at a point where the factory does a lot of that. I send sketches with very minimal specs, and they can figure it out.

Selling true bespoke garments requires a dedicated designer, either in-house or outsourced. But factories with extensive garment experience can usually handle simpler items.

I design on an iPad with a stylus using Procreate.

Bandholz: I’ve seen your new-arrival ads on Instagram and Facebook. You seem to have a blueprint that is working.

Jafari: Yes, all our advertising has been on Meta. No Google or TikTok.

We have a couple of ad formats. It’s like a flywheel, as we continue to scale. We find the models, then shoot the videos in-house. Then we edit in the Philippines, and create and upload new ads to Meta.

My first successful ad came from an outing with a girlfriend. I was wearing one of my jumpsuits. I asked her to shoot me with a couple of angles, nothing fancy. It showed my outfit in an urban setting. The ad worked. We repeated the concept.

Bandholz: Are you handling your own fulfillment?

Jafari: Yes. Part of the initial rationale was returns, and part was our low volume. Plus, our pre-order model meant we were receiving inventory constantly. Getting it to an outsourced fulfillment provider added an extra step and delayed delivery to our customer.

Bandholz: How do you ensure your products resonate with would-be customers?

Jafari: When we design a piece, I’m always thinking about the customer — who she is, what she wants, and what we’ve already given her. The goal is to create what she needs next. My personal taste influences the brand, but I try not to be overly subjective about design decisions. Ultimately, customer response and sales tell us what works.

We also gather feedback from our community. We host discussions in our Circle community platform where customers comment on fabric designs, share preferences, and discuss products. That feedback, along with replies to my weekly newsletter and in-person events, provides valuable qualitative insight.

Our target customer is a 35- to 65-year-old woman who values creativity, independence, and self-expression— and wants clothing to reflect that.

Bandholz: Where can people buy your clothes, support you, follow you?

Jafari: Our site is MixedByNasrin.com. I’m on LinkedIn.

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Feb 28 2026
How a Pro Writer Uses AI

Kaleigh Moore is a 12-year freelance writer and editor. She’s contributed to Shopify, Forbes, Vogue, Adweek, and various B2B providers, among others. Like all of us, she’s now grappling with the promise and limits of AI.

She calls AI a “fire hose of information” that greatly increases efficiency. She also cautions on what it cannot do, such as interview humans or learn from experience.

She shared those views and more in our recent conversation, including her preferred AI platform, use cases for entrepreneurs, and getting started with AI-driven composition.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Give us a rundown of what you do.

Kaleigh Moore: I’m a freelance writer and editor. I’ve worked with all kinds of B2B and SaaS companies within the ecommerce ecosystem over the past 12 years.

One of the first case studies I wrote for Shopify featured Beardbrand. That was over a decade ago.

Bandholz: Does AI commoditize writing?

Moore: The emerging AI composition tools are incredible; they greatly increase efficiency, especially for the tedious parts of writing, such as ecommerce product descriptions.

But remember that AI tools operate on existing information. They are not creating something new. Human composition provides original perspectives — experiences, thoughts, and feelings.

Do we care about those perspectives? Some people care a lot. I’m a journalist first and foremost. I want to do my own homework, fact-check, and make sure I’m putting out the best of whatever my name is on.

I worry about young people and how they’ll use these tools. I’m 37 years old. I grew up in a largely pre-internet, pre-social media time. I hope we always have human experience and interaction — talk to each other, go to coffee. To me, AI is a nice supplement, but it doesn’t replace person-to-person interaction.

It’s been interesting on the hiring side of things. I occasionally look at full-time in-house writing roles. Over the last 18 months, many of those roles have shifted to require AI operational skills, to hop into an AI tool and craft something. If you are not hands-on with these tools, you won’t even get an interview. So the ability to learn the tools and be curious about them is an important skill now.

Some people say AI is just a bubble, but I don’t think so. It’s too powerful.

Bandholz: How does a writer or entrepreneur learn and apply AI?

Moore: It’s a fire hose of information every day. I approach it as a journalist. A key skill is developing very strong prompts. The more advanced we are at prompting, the better the output.

Beyond that, accept a willingness to learn the new functionalities. It can be intimidating, what with all the new tools.

Anthropic’s Claude is my go-to platform. Claude’s outputs are very good. Anthropic’s entire stance is open-source and transparent. The company prioritizes ethical concerns and data privacy. For me as a writer, Claude is the best. It’s also a great place to start.

Generative AI platforms such as Claude can help entrepreneurs and marketers with promotional emails, social media posts, and LinkedIn articles, among other applications. The platforms will remember a voice and style from existing content.

Bandholz: How do you train AI in that way?

Moore: I’ve been doing it for my own work. I feed Claude good, strong examples of my published articles, case studies, and guides to provide points of reference. It’s akin to informing a new hire, say a junior writer or copywriter.

The aim supplying a lot of very specific guidelines. Lots of dos and don’ts. Use this word; don’t use this one. Input it once, and the AI never forgets, unlike humans. And I can update it over time, which is essential. Although more examples are not always better. AI can get confused by too much information.

A user’s top 10 tweets would be a good, limited data set to start with, plus general instructions on likes and dislikes. Teach AI in the same way you would a human.

Say a merchant wanted to publish a blog post. I would enter a full brief, such as the targeted keyword, the audience, brand names to avoid, and data sources to cite. There’s quite a bit of heavy lifting involved just getting that prompt ready.

Certainly, the merchant could give it a paragraph and request a 500-word blog post on X for this audience. She would get a pretty good output.

But give it the full brief, and she will likely receive a much better result, requiring little editing or tweaking. It’s often a choice of spending time editing the output versus preparing the brief.

For me, editing AI text usually comes down to my writing preferences, though much of it is fact-checking. AI hallucinates; it makes stuff up. It will cite data that doesn’t exist.

Moreover, AI cannot interview or speak with an expert. We have to integrate those afterward.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you and reach out?

Moore: My site is KaleighMoore.com. I’m on X and LinkedIn.

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Feb 21 2026
Beardbrand’s Top Ecommerce Tools in 2026

Occasionally on the podcast I depart from interviewing guests and share my own experiences running Beardbrand, the D2C company I founded in 2012.

In this episode, I address my favorite ecommerce tools in 2026, the platforms and apps essential to our business.

My entire audio narration is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Website

Shopify is an incredible platform for Beardbrand. It gives us the flexibility to quickly test and implement major site changes, such as restructuring our product pages. For example, we replaced multiple fragrance variants on a single product page with individual pages for each fragrance, supported by a collection page.

We can now tell the story of each scent, showcase fragrance-specific reviews, and recommend matching products. The result? A faster site and improved conversions (about 4.6%). For performance, storytelling, and scalability, Shopify dominates.

Judge.me. Another foundational tool is Judge.me, a customer review widget. I’m now a brand ambassador for that company after using it for years. The app is economical; we pay just $15 per month. We’ve customized it to blend into our website, and it looks beautiful.

Recharge. I’ve experienced ups and downs over the years with Recharge, the subscription management platform. Sometimes I feel it’s too expensive, but lately the features have improved. I’ve received compliments from customers on how we run our subscriptions and how easy the process is. Recharge has been a good partner. We have no intentions or plans to look elsewhere.

Marketing

Klaviyo. We’ve long used Klaivyo for all email and text campaigns and automated flows. The decision to include text messaging with Klaviyo was not easy. Postscript is the best in that category for us. But we wanted to consolidate our data. Klaviyo’s text platform is serviceable and a good option. Email is critical to Beardbrand’s success. Our subscriber database functions like a customer management platform.

PostPilot. We have been utilizing PostPilot for our physical postcard campaigns. It’s a nice service, especially to reach folks who have unsubscribed from email and text. They still buy from us, however, and PostPilot is a great way to stay in front of them.

Opensend helps us identify and reach anonymous site visitors who show interest in purchasing our products. The service has improved our conversions. We sync it with PostPilot flows and let it run automatically.

Grapevine Surveys is an essential post-purchase survey tool for customer insights. Grapevine is more affordable than platforms such as Triple Whale or Northbeam, both of which are great, precise options for larger brands. For us, Grapevine provides a simple three-question post-purchase survey: How long is your beard? How did you find us? Why did you choose us?

Meta Ads is our primary channel for customer acquisition. We create a ton of ads — some in-house and some with an agency.

Creative

CapCut is an AI-driven video-editing software. We don’t use it directly, but our agency does. CapCut streamlines and expedites the production process and lessens the burden of our in-house video editor.

Grok Imagine from X generates 6-second videos from prompts. If you’re not using AI video for some of your ads, you’re missing out. I love Grok Imagine. We can create an amazing number of videos quickly. The best use for us is video clips based on prompts of still images of real people, as testimonials. We never use AI to generate fake people and referrals, which is illegal.

Arcads. Mike, our growth marketer, uses Arcads, which is similar to Grok Imagine but more limiting. Sometimes he’ll have me generate videos in Grok Imagine, with its speed and capacity, and then send to him.

Google Nano Banana does a great job for our static images. Our product labels have a lot of text that’s challenging for AI to reproduce. Nano Banana is not perfect, but its errors and hallucinations in the text on our bottles are noticeable only if you stop and study it for a few seconds. Overall, Nono Banana is impressive. For example, I used it to generate an image with black hardened lava next to a knockout photo of our beard oil, to place on a bottle. It did a great job. If you are not experimenting with AI image and video generation, get in there, learn, and start cranking out stuff.

Operations

Settle is an accounts payable and vendor management platform. We signed up late last year. It syncs with our newly adopted accrual accounting system (we had long been on a cash basis) and helps us allocate resources and see where our money is going. Our bookkeeper enters all vendor invoices into Settle. I can verify the accuracy of the invoices and the timing of our payment.

Mercury. We switched to Mercury, a bank-like platform, about six months ago. It’s been a game-changer. It’s entirely different from our previous (traditional) bank. We’ve automated cash transfers between our operational checking and savings accounts to maintain the minimum checking balance while preventing overdrafts. We also use Mercury for our employee credit cards. Mercury pays off the balances immediately once they hit a threshold. It eliminates fees and saves a ton of time.

ShipStation and OpenBorder. We still use ShipStation’s software for fulfillment and shipping, integrating with our third-party fulfillment provider. We signed up with OpenBorder, another software platform, to expedite logistics into Europe. We haven’t officially returned to Europe, but it’s coming. OpenBorder’s assistance is helping.

Slack. Everybody uses Slack. We once used Asana, Trello, and Basecamp, among other collaboration platforms. We dropped them all in favor of Slack, which is also our project management tool. We’re saving money for equivalent productivity.

Google Docs. I’m not a fan of giant corporations such as Google. They retain my data, and I lose privacy. But still, Google Docs is an amazing tool with Sheets and sharing with my colleagues. So, yes, from Nano Banana to Docs, Google is crucial and beneficial.

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Feb 14 2026
Ecomm Cowboy Talks AI and Underdogs

Chris Hall is an ecommerce entrepreneur turned media operator. His new “Ecomm Cowboy” show broadcasts live Monday through Friday on X and YouTube. The mission, he says, is twofold: deliver daily news to sellers and offer companionship to those working alone.

Chris first appeared on the podcast in 2023 as the marketing head of a D2C brand. In this our latest conversation, he addresses his goals for Ecomm Cowboy, production challenges, and, yes, the power of AI tools for one-person brands.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Who are you and what do you do?

Chris Hall: I’m the founder of Ecomm Cowboy, a startup media company broadcasting live Monday through Friday on X and YouTube. We talk about the current and future state of ecommerce so operators can survive and thrive. I launched the show about a month ago.

I stumbled into ecommerce in 2014. I created one of the first subscription coffee brands on the internet.

After that, I worked for a marketing agency and then with Bruce Bolt, the D2C athletic glove company.

Bandholz: What are your goals for Ecomm Cowboy?

Hall: I’ve contemplated the concept for years, with two missions.

First, ecommerce owners are on the bleeding edge of the ever-changing internet. We cover the top news stories, retail developments, direct-to-consumer topics, artificial intelligence — anything related to selling online.

Second, working from a laptop at home is common in the ecommerce industry, but it’s intensely lonely. For many, it’s a dreadful experience. So I hope Ecomm Cowboy is also a place where people can have a companion of sorts and interact.

Bandholz: A daily show with guests is a lot of work.

Hall: Yes, it is. We usually have one guest, but sometimes it’s two. Each show runs an hour. I hope to extend it eventually to two hours.

I prepare for three to four hours each day, covering everything that’s happened, who’s appearing, and what to discuss. Plus events occur in real time that alter the plan.

After each show,  there’s editing, cutting, and posting to make the most of the content. So it’s a lot of energy and time, but I love it.

I thrive on the pressure. There’s much to do every day before noon Central time, when the show goes live.

It brings me back to my time playing football at the University of Texas, where every practice I had to be ready to battle,  mentally and physically. A part of me still welcomes the challenge. I wake up excited every day because of it.

Bandholz: What’s the state of ecommerce?

Hall: AI tools are jaw-dropping. Six months ago, we were laughing at them, but no more. AI can now perform tasks such as ad creation, empowering what I call a one-person brand.

Sean Frank of Ridge, the wallet maker, calls it Ecommerce 4.0. It’s an opportunity for underdogs. One person, harnessing today’s tools, can do what took an entire team five years ago.

A good example is Kive, an AI tool that generates product specs directly within the image. A recent guest, Bart Szaniewski from Dad Gang, a D2C hat seller, described the tool. He uses the images on his Instagram feed.

Bandholz: If you can’t communicate in today’s world, you will be left behind.

Hall: That’s fair. The most adept operators are communicating (in ways I have yet to take advantage of) using AI tools that produce a voice, a video, a copywriting style.

I see two routes going forward. There’s the anti-AI bet. The best way to be anti-AI and build trust is to be live and in person. Be an actual human who’s making mistakes and producing something good enough that people will come back.

The second route is to stay at the forefront of AI technology and become expert on the tools and methods. If you can win visitors in a way that doesn’t deceive them, there’s a way to enrich yourself.

On a recent show, we touched on an app called DramaBox. It produces AI-generated TikTok-style mini dramas. Each episode is literally one minute long. I’m told the business is booming from selling access to the shows. Viewers download the app, pay, and then consume the content.

To me, it’s horrible for humanity, although I use an AI-powered video maker from ByteDance called Seedance 2.0. A number of popular videos use Seedance, such as Ethan Hunt from Mission Impossible.

Many observers say Hollywood is obsolete, a step behind. I don’t know about that. But what I do know is that the capabilities are better than ever.

And now it’s up to us. How can we use the tools to improve what we talk about or solve a problem for them?

Bandholz: Where can listeners watch your show, follow you, or get in touch?

Hall: The show “Ecomm Cowboy” on X and YouTube. I’m also on X or LinkedIn.

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Jan 31 2026
AI Product Discovery Drives Brand Traffic

Phillip Jackson’s media company, Future Commerce, focuses on trends and developments in business.

The company surveyed U.S. shoppers during the 2025 holiday season. He says one insight stood out: when AI recommends a product, 77% of respondents leave the platform to buy on the brand’s site.

Phillip first appeared on the podcast in early 2024. In this our latest conversation, he addressed the downsides of optimized ecommerce sites, the outlook of traditional search, and, yes, the rise of autonomous shopping agents.

The entire audio of our conversation is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Bring us up to date.

Phillip Jackson: Future Commerce is a media company exploring the culture of commerce through newsletters, podcasts, research, and events.

When you and I last spoke, I remember thinking, “I’m made for this.” It felt like everything I’ve learned over my entire career was in one place.

Ecommerce was difficult when I started in 1999. I spent more than a decade working for a direct-to-consumer seller of natural health products. We hand-coded sites in HTML, ran Google AdWords, and scaled multiple brands.

Bandholz: Is it better in 2026?

Jackson: I’ve been saying since around 2019 that we’ve reached the ideal website. We’ve optimized ecommerce experiences to death, and what’s left is efficiency and boredom.

We do a lot of consumer and executive research at Future Commerce. In one study published around 2022, we analyzed about 15 of the world’s highest-traffic ecommerce sites, excluding Amazon. Think brands like Bath & Body Works and Bed Bath & Beyond. We removed logos and navigation, then showed the pages to consumers. Most people couldn’t tell one site from another because they’re functionally identical.

That level of optimization is powerful, but it has a downside: it’s unmemorable. These sites are designed for conversion, not for recall or cultural impact. They’re slippery. You buy, you leave, and nothing sticks.

You see this everywhere in culture. Netflix is a great example. It’s incredible how they use data to maximize completion rates, which is why they release entire seasons at once. The data probably proves it works. But it doesn’t show what’s lost: cultural conversation. Shows released across many weeks remain part of the culture for extended periods.

The same thing has happened in ecommerce and product design. Websites, sport utility vehicles, smartphones, and even electric toothbrushes all converge on the same form.

Many industry folks hope AI will make ecommerce exciting again, but real innovation requires risk, which few companies are willing to take on.

Bandholz: Will marketplaces and AI replace brand websites?

Jackson: There’s a lot packed into that question, and we actually have data around it. On the practical side, the website isn’t going anywhere. Advertisers may shift platforms, and AI-driven discovery is clearly changing behavior, especially among Gen Zs. Generative AI sites have become a trusted source for product and brand discovery.

We researched consumer AI usage before and after the 2025 holidays. One insight stood out. When AI recommends a product, shoppers overwhelmingly prefer to leave the platform and visit the brand’s website. Across two studies, two cohorts, and multiple English-speaking countries, 77% said they would rather click through to the website than buy inside the AI interface.

That challenges the narrative that AI agents will handle all purchasing. I’m bullish on agents long term, but the website remains the center of context, trust, and information for generative engines.

Interestingly, AI may affect physical retail more quickly than digital. In our data, 35% of Gen Zs and 40% of Gen Xs said they’d rather buy based on an AI recommendation than go to a store.

More broadly, old and new systems always coexist. Markets don’t disappear; they evolve. The brands that survive will have durable products, a clear identity, and strong relationships. Almost certainly they will have websites. Everything else is still up for debate.

Bandholz: Will genAI replace traditional search?

Jackson: We’re seeing signs of that shift. However, there are economic questions to answer. What companies win the AI race? Which consumer products become dominant?

Yes, AI is disruptive, but it’s also introducing a new modality in our relationship with digital culture. It isn’t just a search box. It’s a different kind of interaction. I see it as complementary rather than exclusive. Traditional systems don’t vanish overnight; they adapt and coexist. AI changes behavior, but it layers onto existing habits rather than erasing them.

Bandholz: What’s your advice to folks starting in ecommerce?

Jackson: Some level of investment in genAI visibility is non-negotiable. Consumers are increasingly turning to engines like ChatGPT for product recommendations. If you’re not tracking whether your brand shows up there, you should be. It may be the closest thing we have to true organic discovery.

Beyond that, many newer providers aren’t living up to their promised disruption. TikTok Shop, for example, is essentially an affiliate channel. It’s powerful, but it’s not going to change fundamentally how everyone shops.

Bandholz: What major macro trends are you watching?

Jackson: The first is machine autonomy. Every business, from the smallest startup to the largest enterprise, is pushing for more automation and productivity. You see it with self-driving vehicles, delivery robots, and last-mile automation. You also see it in companies, with systems that operate without human intervention. That shift is happening fast.

The second force is human sovereignty, driven by mistrust in institutions. The Edelman Trust Barometer in early 2026 is at a 25-year low. People don’t trust governments, corporations, or systems the way they used to. At the same time, they now have tools to verify claims, build their own worldviews, and take control of decisions.

Healthcare is an example. Individuals can now monitor their own health and interpret data in ways that weren’t possible five years ago.

These two forces — autonomy and sovereignty — can complement each other, but they can also collide. Brands that understand how to navigate both, at any scale, will define the next era of commerce.

Bandholz: How can listeners follow you and reach out?

Jackson: Our site is FutureCommerce.com. We’re on X, YouTube, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I’m on LinkedIn as well.

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Jan 24 2026
M&A Advisor on Ecommerce Valuations

Frank Kosarek is the co-founder of BizPort, a mergers-and-acquisitions marketplace launched in November 2025. Before that, he was head of acquisitions for a large ecommerce aggregator.

He says buyers of ecommerce businesses today focus on discretionary earnings, not revenue, and seek recurring sales, such as subscriptions.

He addressed those items, the state of ecommerce M&A, and more in our recent conversation.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Who are you, and what do you do?

Frank Kosarek: I’m the co-founder of BizPort, a marketplace that helps founders exit their companies. I lead BizPort’s ecommerce division, connecting buyers and sellers. Before BizPort, I was the head of mergers and acquisitions at OpenStore, an aggregator in Miami, where I acquired about 50 Shopify brands. That experience exposed me to ecommerce transactions and what founders should and shouldn’t do when preparing to sell their businesses.

One of the most important concepts in exits is the seller’s discretionary earnings. It’s the foundation of most ecommerce valuations. SDE starts with a company’s annual net income (what’s on the tax return), then adds back the owner’s salary and benefits, and any one-time or non-recurring expenses.

For example, if a business earns $250,000 in net income, the founder pays herself $100,000, has $40,000 in benefits, and incurs a one-time $10,000 legal expense, the SDE would be about $400,000. That number is then multiplied by a valuation multiple, typically 2x to 2.5x for most ecommerce brands, and up to 5x for category leaders.

The best advice for founders is to track SDE monthly. Know your true net income and add-backs. It gives you a clear picture of growth and future valuation.

Eric Bandholz: What’s the demand for ecommerce acquisitions?

Frank Kosarek: Ecommerce experienced extreme acceleration in 2020. We saw years of growth compressed into about 12 months as Covid reshaped consumer behavior. During that period, valuation multiples increased, and many ecommerce businesses launched that probably shouldn’t have. Some lacked product-market fit or a dependable, repeat customer base.

What’s changed since then is buyer behavior. Aggregators, in particular, have pulled back or refined their strategies. As a result, sellers can no longer assume there’s an easy, quick exit waiting for them. Acquirers are more selective and more disciplined about what they buy.

Companies that exist at top multiples tend to resemble subscription businesses. A one-time purchase product, such as a kids’ tricycle, doesn’t create much long-term value if the customer never returns. Compare that to categories such as skincare or supplements, where consumers can subscribe and reorder. Buyers focus heavily on lifetime value and how much revenue they can generate from a customer after paying to acquire them.

That’s why brands without repeat or subscription-driven revenue often see leaner valuations, while strong subscription-heavy brands can still command multiples closer to 5x SDE.

Eric Bandholz: What’s the minimum revenue level to sell an ecommerce business?

Frank Kosarek: At BizPort, we generally look for brands doing at least $1 million in annual revenue before getting involved. At that level, ecommerce margins usually provide enough cash flow to underwrite a transaction, whether through a loan, capital injection, or both. That’s typically the minimum size where an acquisition becomes feasible.

When annual revenue reaches $30 million, potential buyers include private equity firms or larger strategic buyers. Those acquirers are more likely to evaluate businesses using revenue multiples instead of earnings multiples. There isn’t a hard line, but it’s an important distinction for founders to be aware of as their brands scale.

Eric Bandholz: How do founders separate personal attachment from fair market value?

Frank Kosarek: M&A for small ecommerce brands is much more art than science. There’s no one-size-fits-all deal structure. Most ecommerce founders have very high expectations for their company’s value, often thinking in large multiples of revenue.

That’s understandable because building a brand from the ground up requires a huge amount of work, much of which doesn’t show up on an income statement. That effort is intangible, and outside buyers can’t fully appreciate it from financials alone. Plus, many founders don’t realize that a multiple of discretionary earnings, not top-line revenue, typically values ecommerce businesses. That often leads to a reality check.

Eric Bandholz: How often do earn-outs fail?

Frank Kosarek: Some sellers want a complete exit with no ongoing involvement, and buyers generally understand that. Still, a smart buyer will usually negotiate a transition period, often three to six months, to help transfer operations and institutional knowledge. Additional support can turn into a short-term consulting agreement in which sellers receive a fixed monthly fee. In that case, sellers no longer have equity or performance-based upside; they’re simply helping with continuity.

I’ve seen situations where sellers and buyers clash operationally or strategically. When that happens, earn-outs often suffer. Sellers miss targets and don’t receive additional payouts, and buyers struggle because the transition doesn’t go smoothly.

Bandholz: What can stop a deal or hurt valuation?

Kosarek: One major piece of advice for sellers is to sell when your numbers are strong. Don’t wait until performance starts to decline or the market turns against you. Be open to exploratory conversations, especially after a banner year. Waiting until the curve crashes makes exits much harder.

Another common mistake is overspending on marketing to inflate top-line revenue. For smaller ecommerce brands, valuation is typically based on profit, not revenue. Pumping the top line at the expense of the bottom usually doesn’t earn a premium.

Another red flag is a lack of operational structure. Buyers don’t want to walk into a business and have to build everything from scratch. They want to see systems and processes in place. That includes working with a third-party logistics provider for fulfillment and returns, clear ownership of marketing functions, and documented processes.

Buyers’ confidence in the deal increases when they can quickly understand how the company operates and distributes work.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you, reach out to you?

Kosarek: Our site is Biz-port.com. You can find me on LinkedIn.

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Jan 17 2026
DIY Approach Fuels Craft Cocktail Brand

Chris Harrison says it all started with a single pot on a stove. He and two high school buddies launched Liber & Co., a manufacturer of premium cocktail syrups, with that tiny test batch in 2011 in Austin, Texas.

Fast forward to 2026, and batches are now in 1,500-gallon tanks and sold worldwide to restaurants, bars, and consumers. But the culture remains hands-on, do-it-yourself, and learn-by-doing.

Chris first appeared on the podcast in 2022. In our recent conversation, he shared the company’s origins, sourcing tactics, growth plans, and more. Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Who are you, and what do you do?

Chris Harrison: I’m a co-founder of Liber & Co. We make premium non-alcoholic cocktail syrups for bars, restaurants, coffee shops, and home consumers. We’re based in Georgetown, Texas, near Austin, and handle almost everything in-house: manufacturing, warehousing, marketing, ecommerce, wholesale, and even international sales.

Our founding team grew up together in the same small Texas town. We’re the same age, went to the same high school, and came from similar blue-collar backgrounds. We didn’t have a big professional network or capital to outsource everything, so if something needed to be done, we learned to do it ourselves.

We’re also food people. You can’t outsource being a foodie or understanding flavor. Even the best chefs are hands-on in the kitchen, tasting, adjusting, and refining. That mindset shaped Liber & Co. from the beginning. We wanted to be close to the product to understand the ingredients, sourcing, and flavor development firsthand. That do-it-yourself culture became part of our identity.

Bandholz: How did you learn production, moving from a kitchen to a manufacturing facility?

Harrison: It’s a long, incremental journey. We relied on research and trial and error. We started with a small stock pot on a stove, then moved to a 25-gallon pan, then a 200-gallon tank, and now we operate multiple 1,500-gallon tanks.

That gradual progression was critical. You can’t attempt too much without putting the business at risk. If we had jumped straight from a kitchen setup to our current scale, we would have made far more expensive mistakes. Iterating step by step gave us time to understand what worked and what didn’t. There aren’t many shortcuts when you’re building something physical.

Our product category also made things harder. Unlike breweries, which often follow well-established scaling paths, there wasn’t a clear blueprint for cocktail syrups. That meant a lot of independent study, testing equipment, ordering samples, and experimenting with processes. We made mistakes along the way, which were part of the learning curve.

Manufacturing your own product limits capacity. You can’t sell more than you can physically make. There’s no co-manufacturer to absorb demand — you are the bottleneck. That was especially true in the early days.

Early on, we did whatever it took to fulfill orders. I spent 18 hours straight in the kitchen more than once to fill large orders for H-E-B, the grocery chain. It was manual work: long days, minimal breaks, and just pushing through. Thirteen years later, we’re grateful we no longer have to operate that way.

Bandholz: How do you find ingredient suppliers?

Harrison: Most of our sourcing has come from research. That includes a lot of Googling, using ChatGPT and Gemini, and contacting suppliers directly. We typically send a detailed request for proposal outlining who we are, what we need, and our product specifications. Then we ask if they can meet those requirements, provide documentation, and send samples. From there, we test and evaluate.

We cast a wide net geographically. With ginger, for example, we looked at suppliers across Africa, China, Vietnam, and Hawaii before ultimately choosing a Peruvian source. Some leads come from word of mouth. Someone might say, “I saw great ginger in Peru.” I’ll track down the producer through Google or LinkedIn. That actually happened.

It takes persistence. My background is in biology, so I enjoy getting into the weeds, so to speak. We also try to maintain backup suppliers. Fresh produce is unpredictable; pineapple crops suffered globally this year, driving up prices. A frozen backup supply helped smooth costs, but sourcing is never easy or guaranteed.

Bandholz: Is frozen produce better than fresh?

Harrison: In many cases, yes, frozen can be better. Farmers can wait until fruit reaches peak ripeness before harvesting. For something like raspberries, they’ll test sugar content the day of harvest using a refractometer. They literally crush the fruit and measure Brix, the dissolved-sugar level. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration even publishes approved Brix ranges for various fruits, such as peaches, pomegranates, and raspberries.

Farmers aim to hit those targets because that’s where flavor, aroma, and sweetness are best. But it comes from ripening on the vine. Once harvested, the fruit must be used immediately or preserved. Freezing is one of the best ways to lock in that peak quality.

Frozen storage requires capital. Cold storage and refrigerated transportation are expensive, but the tradeoff is consistency and quality. The frozen supply chain has expanded significantly. We’re seeing more investment in large-scale frozen facilities across the country. Even in central Texas, companies are building new frozen warehouses. We use one in North Austin.

If you’re serious about sourcing high-quality food ingredients, the frozen cold chain is often the best option.

Plus, we typically purchase small portions. Large companies such as Smucker’s buy in massive bulk. We like buying from cooperatives of many smaller, independent farms. Certain regions grow crops naturally well. For raspberries, that’s the U.S. Pacific Northwest, parts of Washington and Oregon.

Those regions have family-run farms, often third-generation operations, managing anywhere from 20 to 200 acres. Around them are many similar farms, all growing the same crop in the same climate. That creates a strong network effect: consistent weather, shared knowledge, and reliable quality across the region.

Because these farms remain independent, you avoid some of the downsides of large, consolidated operations. There’s less pressure to cut corners, harvest early, or sacrifice quality to maximize margins. In our experience, the cooperative model prioritizes long-term quality and sustainability.

We might buy one or two truckloads of fruit per year — roughly 40,000 to 80,000 pounds. A cooperative, by contrast, may handle 400 or 500 truckloads in a single harvest. Being a small buyer reduces risk. If we relied on a single farm for everything, we’d be far more vulnerable to supply disruptions.

Bandholz: How do you plan to evolve the brand?

Harrison: We don’t feel limited. We’ve explored packaging formats beyond bottles, which we currently use for syrups. Cans are a natural extension for cocktails, mocktails, or even cannabis beverages. From a formulation, sourcing, and food safety perspective, we could make those products. Packaging is often the most expensive part of goods. It can feel like a constraint, but it’s more about investment and logistics than capability.

At our scale, outsourcing packaging formats is possible. Specialized manufacturers can handle canning at scale. The primary considerations are unit economics and lack of control. That’s a philosophical question as much as a business one.

Overall, we see opportunities to grow both vertically and horizontally. We can deepen what we already do with syrups or expand into new formats, product types, and channels. Brand evolution is more about strategy, resources, and willingness to experiment while maintaining quality and authenticity.

Bandholz: Where can people buy your syrups and get in touch?

Harrison: Our site is LiberAndCompany.com. I’m on LinkedIn.

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Jan 10 2026
Ecommerce Success with Fractional Talent

In his previous appearance on the podcast, in November 2022, Jai Dolwani was the CMO of a wine subscription company that would shortly declare bankruptcy. It was his third struggling startup, he says, prompting “serious self-reflection.”

The result? He pivoted to entrepreneurship and launched The Starters, a marketplace for fractional ecommerce talent, in late 2023. The company has thrived, having attracted more than 600 freelancers and 500 client brands.

In our recent conversation, Jai addressed the demand for ecommerce talent, tips for hiring freelancers, and plans for 2026 and beyond.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Tell us what you do.

Jai Dolwani: I’m the founder of The Starters, a company that helps ecommerce brands access top-tier fractional talent through a curated, vetted marketplace. We connect brands with experienced marketers, creatives, and technologists — professionals who’ve helped build some of the world’s best companies — so they can hire flexibly and efficiently.

Before that, I was CMO at Winc, a wine subscription company. We had recently gone public, but behind the scenes, the business struggled. A few weeks after my last conversation with you, Winc declared bankruptcy and was later acquired. I was offered a role, but it marked my third startup in a row to fail financially, prompting some serious self-reflection.

I questioned whether it was bad luck or my own shortcomings. Ultimately, I decided I needed full ownership of outcomes and became an entrepreneur. I bootstrapped the business with a $5,000 personal investment, and it’s grown steadily since. My mission now is twofold: help freelancers find meaningful, flexible work and help ecommerce brands build lean, efficient, and profitable organizations.

Bandholz: You’re building a two-sided marketplace. How did you attract talent early and create traction?

Dolwani: From day one, my philosophy was to attract the best talent first, and brands will follow. Brands are always on the hunt for top talent. To do that, we built what I believe is the most talent-friendly marketplace in the industry.

We don’t charge freelancers a commission. Unlike platforms such as Upwork or Fiverr, 100% of what freelancers bill goes directly to them. We offer private profiles. Many top performers already have jobs and don’t want a public marketplace profile visible to employers, so access is limited to vetted brands. We also avoid the race to the bottom. Most marketplaces become transactional and price-driven, with median rates of $10 to $15 per hour. We stay highly curated and vetted, focusing on strategic fit over cost.

As a result, talent on our platform competes on expertise, not price. The median rate is about $90 per hour, reflecting quality and outcomes. We’ve attracted executives from nine-figure companies and world-class specialists who would never join typical freelance platforms.

Early on, it was hard — sourcing and onboarding the first freelancers myself. Over time, strong experiences generated word-of-mouth from freelancers and brands.

Bandholz: If talent keeps 100%, how does your business make money?

Dolwani: We monetize exclusively on the brand side. Brands pay $295 per month to access the platform and hire talent through us. We charge the fee upfront, before they can view or contact freelancers, which ensures high intent. If a brand isn’t satisfied or we can’t meet its needs, we refund the fee.

This model is simple and fair. We’re not trying to build a billion-dollar, venture-backed company. We’re bootstrapped, and the pricing reflects the value we provide while allowing freelancers to keep 100% of their rates.

Payments to freelancers go through Stripe. We never touch that money — funds move directly from the brand to the freelancer. We orchestrate the experience and facilitate the connection, while the working relationship remains direct.

Most of our clients are ecommerce brands earning $1–10 million that need support but aren’t ready for full-time hires, though we also help pre-launch and nine-figure companies.

Bandholz: How do brands work with talent on your platform, and what types of expertise can they access?

Dolwani: Engagements are flexible and depend on what the brand and freelancer agree on, but I recommend a clear progression. Start with a small, capped hourly trial — around five hours — to evaluate quality. If the work doesn’t impress you immediately, it likely won’t improve. After that, work together for one to two months on an hourly basis, with a cap, to understand the output, speed, and communication.

Once expectations are clear and things are working well, shifting to a monthly retainer makes sense. Retainers reduce time tracking and keep everyone focused on outcomes rather than hours.

We now have just over 600 vetted professionals on the platform. Our core strengths are marketing, creative, and technology — everything from media buyers and fractional CMOs to designers, creative directors, Shopify developers, and heads of data and analytics. We’ve recently expanded into operations, product development, supply chain, finance, and retail expansion for consumer package brands, with more growth planned for 2026.

We’ve succeeded at our initial goal of helping ecommerce brands access better fractional talent than they’d find elsewhere. But the world is changing. As AI reduces the need for human execution, the value shifts away from task completion toward specialized knowledge and better decision-making.

Companies will win because they have deeper human insight guiding strategy. That’s where I see us going. Beyond a freelancer marketplace, we’re building a home for ecommerce expertise.

That means making knowledge accessible through courses, guides, webinars, live Q&As, consulting calls, and ongoing advisory relationships — hiring being just one option. Long-term, we hope The Starters becomes a destination for ecommerce brands to build their “human advantage” to create differentiated strategies and win.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you? Hire some freelancers?

Dolwani: Our site is Hirethestarters.com. I’m on X and LinkedIn.

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