Oct 4 2025
Startup Vet Revives Legacy Fitness Brand

Jon Shanahan destroys the myth that founders make lousy employees. He co-founded Stryx, a men’s cosmetics provider, and is now a marketing executive at TRX, the storied exercise equipment company. He has thrived in both roles.

He joined TRX in late 2022 amid a post-Covid hangover and a stale legacy brand. Fast forward to late 2025, and TRX is refreshed and flourishing, thanks in part to Jon’s entrepreneurial mindset.

While at Stryx, Jon appeared on the podcast twice, in 2020 and 2022. In this latest conversation, he shares transitioning to a large corporation, the challenges of reviving a brand, and more.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is condensed and edited for clarity.

Eric Bandholz: What are you doing now?

Jon Shanahan: I transitioned to TRX Training as vice president of marketing at the end of 2022. TRX is the global training brand recognized for its distinctive black-and-yellow suspension straps, a bodyweight training system found in nearly every gym.

You helped us at Stryx when we launched into Target in 2022. Stryx and Beardbrand entered during a major aisle reset, which eliminated many existing brands. Four or five other companies launched alongside us, but by 2023, Target had removed all of us — even though our sales exceeded Target’s benchmarks.

TRX filed for bankruptcy in early 2022, following the collapse of the fitness boom. During the pandemic, anything fitness-related was popular, and TRX was everywhere — Nordstrom, REI, Hy-Vee. However, demand eventually dropped, and the company overextended itself.

In August, founder Randy Hetrick reacquired TRX. His goal was to modernize a 20-year-old global brand for a new generation. Initially, I wasn’t keen on moving to Florida from my home in Pennsylvania, but I eventually did, and I joined the team.

My initial focus was brand strategy. I conducted a global study — TRX operates in 80-plus countries — to clarify its identity and market role. That led to a complete refresh, including a new logo. Randy supported it, and it’s been well received.

Soon, I took over all marketing and later expanded into ecommerce and in-store retail, along with TRX’s commercial and education businesses. Unlike Stryx, where I was the face of the brand, here I’m behind the scenes, scaling a legacy brand. TRX had diehard fans, so the challenge is guiding that loyalty into growth and innovation.

Bandholz: You created a new TRX logo. Did it receive a backlash?

Shanahan: Surprisingly, no. In Europe, we have 25 long-time distributors who’ve supported TRX since Randy first sold straps himself. I was intentional in the redesign — it had to feel like TRX but with a modern edge. The heritage mattered, but it needed a fresh approach.

The decision came while we were building a new headquarters in Delray Beach. Seeing the old logo in the renderings, I realized that if we hadn’t changed it then, we never would. It marked a new era for TRX.

The update wasn’t drastic. We retained the iconic “TRX” name and black-and-yellow colors, while refining the design. Rolling it out took time because of our extensive SKUs. We phased it in digitally first, then packaging and straps, keeping costs down.

We also ensured stakeholders were on board. Distributors, retailers, and internal teams were the first to preview it. Notably, the redesign was by the original TRX designer — the same one who worked with Randy in his garage. Bringing him back gave the refresh authenticity.

The reception was smooth. For us, the new logo signaled TRX’s return and future direction.

Bandholz: You oversee retail, direct-to-consumer, and Amazon. How do you prioritize and align those channels?

Shanahan: Each channel requires a different approach. Amazon is a daily knife fight. You need competitive, lower-priced SKUs to stand out. Our ecommerce site, by contrast, is the brand’s showcase. That’s where we feature premium products and position TRX as the leader.

We manage channel conflict with multiple SKUs. For example, we sell 18 versions of the suspension trainer: two premium models on our stie, three “good-better-best” options on Amazon, and value-driven versions in physical retail.

Retail messaging is sport-specific, such as golf, pickleball, and tennis, since shoppers want programs tied to their favorite activities. On Amazon, people mostly search for “home gym” or “home strength,” so we optimize our keywords accordingly.

Our site emphasizes heritage — “the iconic strap” — and certain high-ticket products, such as our 20- and 40-pound weight vests. They wouldn’t sell on Amazon.

Beyond consumer channels, we’re expanding into commercial and educational sectors. That means learning what gyms, trainers, and pros need and then translating those insights back to consumers. After two years, I feel we’ve hit a stride — 2026 will be about strengthening those cross-channels.

Bandholz: You’ve transitioned from an entrepreneurial role at Stryx to a corporate environment.

Shanahan: Founders bring a unique skill set, but the transition isn’t always easy. For those early in their careers, I often recommend starting with an established company. You’ll get paid to make mistakes and learn valuable lessons. I spent years at Apple and a software firm before starting YouTube projects and co-founding Stryx. I can apply those lessons in a corporate role.

Joining an existing team, I leveraged my finance literacy while also focusing on listening. The first six months ideally are dedicated to understanding how things work before making any changes.

Clear communication is critical. I talk daily with leadership to share issues and align on direction, then relay that to the team. It feels like being a founder again — selling the vision, gathering feedback, and building buy-in.

Bandholz: Let’s talk about licensing. How can a brand establish those high-margin collaborations?

Shanahan: Licensing comes in two forms. In-licensing is what we did with The Ohio State University. We created a TRX strap branded with that school’s name, paid royalties, and benefited from the recognition. Out-licensing is the reverse: putting TRX on products we don’t manufacture. For that to work, our brand must carry strong market credibility.

TRX is authentic in functional training, so extending into other training products makes sense. It allows consumers to choose TRX-branded items over generic private-label alternatives at stores such as Dick’s Sporting Goods. That’s a direction we’re exploring for 2026.

We’ve had inbound interest from various companies. For example, Dick’s fitness section features Everlast resistance bands and New Balance jump ropes — products manufactured by third-party companies, which pay a 5–10% royalty. Walmart is similar, with about 60% of its fitness gear being licensed brands and 40% private label.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you, buy some TRX bands?

Shanahan: We’re at Trxtraining.com. Hit me up on LinkedIn.

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Sep 27 2025
CFO Shifts to Menswear, Egyptian Roots

In 2020, Karim Abed was the chief financial officer for a Texas-based home builder. The job paid well, he says, but he yearned to launch his own business and reconnect with his Egyptian heritage.

Fast forward to 2025, and that business is WYR, a men’s apparel brand utilizing Giza cotton, the storied fabric, and small Egypt-based factories. The company is thriving.

In our recent conversation, Karim addressed WYR’s initial struggles, subsequent growth, and, yes, the benefits of Egyptian cotton and craftspeople.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is condensed and edited for quality.

Eric Bandholz: Tell us who you are and what you do.

Karim Abed: I’m the founder of WYR, a men’s premium clothing brand launched in 2020. My girlfriend, now my wife, suggested WYR, shorthand for “what you’d rather” wear. I loved the simplicity and stuck with it.

Before WYR, I spent nearly a decade in Texas working in finance, eventually as the chief financial officer for a real estate division of a home builder. It was financially rewarding, but I wanted to create something of my own.

I eventually decided on clothing because of family connections in Egypt. I hoped to reconnect with my culture and heritage while producing quality items — shirts, pants, boxers — using Egyptian cotton, a renowned product.

In January 2020, just before the pandemic, I traveled to Egypt with fabric samples and refined patterns that I had worked on for six months, and I launched in July of that year.

I learned from mistakes. I kept my finance job to fund the business, so I could afford to lose a few bucks. We lost a good amount of money in the first and second years. Covid unexpectedly helped by letting me work from home and focus on WYR after hours.

Bandholz: When did you commit fully to the apparel company?

Abed: We sold only 1,000 units in the first six months and generated only $20,000 in revenue during the first year. Once I refined our selling proposition — premium Giza cotton, precise fit, great reviews — sales exploded. Revenue jumped to nearly $1 million in year two. That growth gave me the confidence to go full-time.

Many apparel brands order from large factories, often in Eastern Europe. I chose a different path. I source in Egypt and work with small artisan-run workshops instead of big manufacturers. A craftsman with 35 years’ experience leads our main facility. He still sews and manages a 15-person team.

Partnering with these artisans ensures meticulous quality and allows for custom details such as curved hems, unique stitching, and tailored armholes that large factories wouldn’t accommodate. We provide them enough business to focus solely on WYR.

To maintain standards, we added our own quality control team to these small factories. This hands-on approach lets us preserve the craftsmanship and fit that define our brand while scaling production responsibly.

All told, we utilize six factories, depending on demand. Each specializes in a skill. For example, one focuses on chinos because it has the right machinery for twill cotton, while another handles our curved hems, which require precise stitching. We match each product to the facility best suited for that craft.

This network took months to build. Through my wife’s family connections, I met an experienced production manager who joined our team. He helped us test numerous small workshops, dropping those that didn’t meet standards and adding new ones as needed.

Today, we have eight staff members in Egypt, including managers for quality control, inventory, and production. We also maintain a small warehouse. We operate lean, producing on an as-needed basis. Owning our yarn allows us to stay flexible and keep a tight inventory while ensuring consistent quality.

Bandholz: What’s the difference between Egyptian and Giza cotton?

Abed: Giza is a specific, long-staple strain of Egyptian cotton, graded by location and fiber type. It’s rare and government-regulated. Most “Egyptian cotton” products aren’t truly Giza. We secure production by reserving about 10 tons of yarn from a trusted textile mill and verifying it ourselves.

Consumers may think a t-shirt is machine-made start to finish, but for us, skilled labor is critical. Drawing and layering patterns, precise cutting, and careful sewing all affect the final quality. Every step — from picking the cotton to spinning, dyeing, and sewing — happens in Egypt.

Our cotton is expensive. It’s the highest input cost for our shirts. Cheaper alternatives are available in countries such as China, Bangladesh, and India. China, in particular, excels at synthetic athletic fabrics. But for authentic Giza cotton quality, Egypt is unmatched.

Bandholz: You’ve succeeded with apparel, a competitive industry.

Abed: The challenge was convincing consumers — who can’t feel our shirts online — of their value. We relied heavily on ads with quick, attention-grabbing messages about our fit, Giza cotton fabric, and simple, logo-free style. That built enough trust and reviews to drive repeat purchases, which remain our biggest growth engine.

Going viral isn’t realistic for minimalist basics. Our appeal is understated comfort and timeless quality, not flashy logos. Instead, we focus on steady customer acquisition and retention.

Early on, I hired several marketing agencies, but none cared as much as I did. With my finance and analytical background, I realized I could manage most of it myself. Now I handle ad strategy with one team member, outsourcing only content creation. For promotions such as Black Friday, we plan campaigns, drop the creative into our ads, and closely monitor performance.

Bandholz: How do you find content creators?

Abed: We produce podcast episodes in-house. Agencies create humorous ads, and our customers generate reviews and testimonials. I find creators on Instagram who match our minimalist vibe, then invite them to make authentic posts.

Surprisingly, simple flat-lay photos — just a well-styled shirt and pants — perform exceptionally well, although they’re difficult to shoot, so we outsource some of that work. The key is constant iteration and diverse creative sources to keep ads fresh.

I prefer creators who genuinely like our shirts, rather than those chasing paychecks. Some accept products in exchange for content. I avoid expensive “pay-to-play” deals because audiences can sense inauthenticity.

We briefly tried a large public relations agency for exposure, but it felt out of brand. I’d rather grow grassroots than pay athletes or influencers five-figure sums for sponsorships. Authenticity matters more than big-name endorsements.

Bandholz: What’s your next growth stage?

Abed: We intend to scale carefully. Having a single factory focused solely on us would be excellent. I’ve even toyed with opening my own facility, but that’s an entirely different business.

In a perfect world, I’d own every part of the supply chain, from production to selling. That gives customers the highest value and ensures the best quality. But I also value my life outside of work and want time with my family.

I’m not a fan of the “grow first, profit later” mindset. Some founders run losses for years before turning cash flow positive. I believe a business should prove itself within two or three years. Scaling takes steps. You can’t jump overnight from selling 200,000 shirts annually to 2 million. The supply chain must expand methodically to maintain quality.

Bandholz: Where can people buy your shirts or reach out?

Abed: Our site is Wyrwear.com. We’re also on Instagram. I’m on LinkedIn.

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Sep 20 2025
How Brands Boost ROI with Smart Data

Ecommerce marketers know the challenge of delivering relevant promotions to prospects without violating privacy rules and norms. Yet many providers now offer solutions that do both — personalize offers and respect privacy — for much greater performance.

Two of those providers are my guests in this week’s episode. Sean Larkin is CEO of Fueled, a customer data platform for merchants. Francesco Gatti is CEO of Opensend, a repository of consumer demographic and behavior data.

The entire audio of our conversation is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Give us an overview of what you do.

Sean Larkin: I’m CEO and founder of Fueled, a customer data platform for ecommerce. We help brands strengthen the data signals sent to advertising and marketing platforms such as Meta to improve tracking and performance. Our team collaborates with companies such as Built Basics, Dr. Squatch, and Oats Overnight, ensuring accurate pixel data and confidence in their marketing metrics.

Francesco Gatti: I’m CEO and co-founder of Opensend. We help brands identify site visitors who haven’t provided contact information. This includes new users who show sufficient engagement for retargeting and returning shoppers browsing on different devices or browsers. Our technology links these sessions, enabling brands and platforms such as Klaviyo and Shopify to distinguish between returning visitors and new ones.

We also offer a persona tool that segments customers by detailed demographics and behavior, enabling personalized marketing. We integrate directly with Klaviyo and other email platforms. By enhancing Klaviyo accounts, we help merchants reach unidentifiable visitors and maximize ad spend. Our re-identification capabilities are critical, as consumers often use multiple devices and frequently replace them, which can disrupt tracking. We work with roughly 1,000 brands, including Oats Overnight, Regent, and Alexander Wang.

Bandholz: How can your tools track a consumer across devices?

Gatti: We see two main use cases. First is cross-device and cross-browser identification. Imagine Joe bought from you last year on his old iPhone. This year, he returns using a new iPhone or his work computer. Typically, you wouldn’t know it’s the same person. Our technology matches signals such as user-agent data against our consumer graph, which holds multiple devices per person, allowing you to recognize Joe regardless of the device or browser.

The second use case involves capturing emails from high-intent visitors. Suppose Joe clicks an Instagram ad, views several product pages for over two minutes, even adds items to his cart, but leaves without buying or subscribing.

Through data partnerships with publishers such as Sports Illustrated and Quizlet, where users provide their email addresses in exchange for free content or promotions, we can match Joe’s anonymous activity to his known email. We then send that email, plus his on-site behavior, to Klaviyo and similar platforms. This triggers an abandonment flow, allowing us to retarget him with personalized messages and increase the chance of conversion.

Bandholz: What are other ways brands use the data?

Gatti: Brands mainly set up automated flows and let them run. Like Fueled, we send data to email platforms and customer data systems, allowing them to trigger personalized actions automatically. The data enables Klaviyo to distinguish between new and returning visitors to show pop-ups only to first-timers.

Larkin: We integrate hashed emails into Meta. Match scores rise 30–50%, and return on ad spend improves because we can prove an ad drove a sale and retarget that shopper.

Gatti: Our identity graph stores multiple data points, including email addresses, phone numbers, postal addresses, IP addresses, and devices. Sharing that with Fueled feeds richer details into Meta’s conversion API, dramatically increasing match rates and targeting accuracy.

Larkin: Privacy rules now limit simple pixel tracking. Since iOS 17, identifiers are stripped, making it harder for ecommerce brands to track visitors and run effective ads. Fueled collects first-party data, and Opensend’s third-party graph restores lost signals. With conversion API integrations, brands send detailed data directly to platforms such as Meta for stronger targeting and email automation.

Bandholz: When should a brand start using data technologies like yours?

Larkin: It depends on scale. If you’re spending under $20,000 a month on ads, the free Shopify integrations with Meta or Google usually suffice. Fueled is twice the cost of our competitors because we offer hands-on audits, proactive monitoring, and direct Slack support. Our typical clients do $8 million or more in annual revenue, often over $20 million. Some entrepreneurs bring us in from day one for the data advantage. Still, most brands should wait until ad spend grows and minor optimizations have a significant financial impact.

Gatti: For Opensend it’s about traffic, not revenue. We recommend at least 30,000 monthly unique visitors so our filtering can produce quality new emails. Services that identify returning visitors across devices work best for sites with 100,000 monthly visitors, where a 10x ROI is common. Our plans start at $250 per month.

Visitors who never share an email address convert less often, but our filtering narrows the gap. At apparel brand True Classic, for example, we captured 390,000 emails over three years, saw 65% open rates, and delivered a 5x return on investment within three months. As these contacts move through remarketing with holiday offers and seasonal promotions, ROI continues to compound.

Bandholz: When should a company remove an unresponsive subscriber?

Gatti: It varies by brand, average order value, and overall marketing strategy. We work with both high-end luxury companies and billion-dollar tire sellers with very different approaches. In general, if you’ve sent 10 to 15 emails with zero engagement, it’s time to drop those contacts. Continuing to send won’t help.

Larkin: I’d add that many brands, including big ones, don’t plan their retargeting or abandonment flows, especially heading into Black Friday and Cyber Monday. The pressure to discount everything can lead to leaving money on the table. Opensend reveals customer intent, allowing you to adjust offers. Someone who reaches the checkout may not require the same discount as someone who has only added a product to their cart.

We partner with agencies such as Brand.co and New Standard Co that help us build smart strategies. My biggest recommendation for the holidays is to review your flows, decide when a large discount is necessary, and avoid giving away the farm. If you blanket customers with huge discounts, many will disappear once the sale ends.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you, find you, use your services?

Gatti: Our site is Opensend.com. I’m on LinkedIn.

Larkin: We’re Fueled.io. I’m also on LinkedIn.

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Sep 13 2025
36 Ways to Revive an Ecommerce Business

Listeners and readers of “Ecommerce Conversations” know I occasionally depart from interviews to share my experiences owning and operating Beardbrand, the direct-to-consumer brand I launched a decade ago. To date, I’ve addressed hiring, branding, profit-building, priority-setting, exiting, overcoming setbacks, and top business models.

This too is a solo episode, addressing entrepreneurial doldrums, when a business is seemingly stuck in no growth or worse. Certainly that’s the story of Beardbrand over the past couple of years.

So here are 36 ideas to jolt a company forward. Think of this as a checklist for tackling new projects, cutting costs, or simply resetting your focus.

My entire audio dialog is embedded below. The transcript is condensed and edited for clarity.

Operations

Build framework. Implement a clear operating framework, such as EOS — Entrepreneurial Operating System — to guide meetings, goal-setting, and accountability. It keeps everyone aligned and focused.

Define culture. Clarify why your company exists, who you serve, and how. If you haven’t done these things, you can feel lost, really quickly. Boundaries create focus, and focus strengthens customer relationships.

Define mission and core values. Create a memorable mission and concise core values for your team to live by. At Beardbrand, our values are freedom, hunger, and trust — balanced and reinforced through interviews, reviews, and everyday recognition.

Outsource when necessary. Regularly assess what to keep in-house and what to outsource. A smaller, focused team provides flexibility and freedom, while trusted external partners handle the rest.

Improve manufacturing. Continuously evaluate suppliers and get multiple quotes. Choose partners that meet quality, timing, and minimum order quantities, and stay ready for changes in pricing or management.

Implement better shipping. Re-quote carriers such as FedEx, UPS, USPS, and DHL to maintain competitive rates. Review box sizes, packaging, and 3PL processes to optimize costs, minimize errors, and enhance the customer experience.

Mitigating Risk

ADA compliance. Keep your site accessible and up to date with the requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act to protect customers with disabilities and avoid lawsuits. Maintain a clear process for regular audits to defend your business when necessary.

Terms and privacy. Have a lawyer review your terms and privacy policy instead of relying on boilerplate text. Ensure compliance with privacy laws, including the E.U.’s General Data Protection Regulation and state-specific regulations in jurisdictions such as California and Virginia. Use pop-ups to obtain consent and avoid tracking visitors who decline.

Insurance. Verify that your coverage aligns with revenue and risk. Shop multiple providers each year to confirm you’re getting the best rate and protection.

Pay off debt. Run lean. Keep debt as low as possible so you can scale down if times get tough and borrow only when necessary.

Trademarks. Register your brand name and unique product names. Regularly search for copycats and address violations promptly, ideally with a polite initial approach before escalating to legal action.

Copyrighted photography. Use only images and text you own or license. AI art isn’t always immune to claims, and some creators are aggressive about enforcing their rights. Remind your team that use carries real legal risk.

Product claims. Avoid guaranteed-result language. You can say a product “helps” or “improves appearance,” but words like “cures” or “heals” trigger regulatory oversight.

Two-factor authentication. Enable 2FA for every employee and account to guard against phishing and unauthorized logins.

Secure email. Set up DMARC, SPF, and DKIM to prevent spoofing or impersonation of your domain.

Unused apps. Remove apps you no longer use. Old, unsupported apps can become back doors for hackers or leak your data.

Unused subscriptions. Audit credit cards and recurring charges. Cancel forgotten subscriptions and consider issuing new cards yearly to keep hidden costs and risks low.

Marketing

New customer strategy. Explore new channels. Are you on Amazon, Walmart, Etsy, and eBay? Know where your prospects are shopping, especially if you’re product-focused versus brand-focused.

In-person channels. Consider B2B and niche retailers, from independent pharmacies to mass-market stores. Smaller markets or events, such as marathons or trade shows, can offer stable, untapped opportunities.

Expand your reach. Google and Meta are common, but don’t forget TikTok, Snapchat, Pinterest, X, and YouTube. Other platforms and plugins can amplify reach.

Direct mail. Use direct mail for customers who have unsubscribed from emails. It’s another owned channel to reach potential buyers.

SMS. Similar to email, SMS is a direct and effective means of communication.

Advertising on other platforms. Market on email newsletters, websites, or programmatic TV if your budget allows. Even magazines can offer last-minute ad opportunities.

SEO/GEO. Search engine optimization may feel outdated, but it still matters to drive generative engine optimization. Ensure your site adheres to solid SEO fundamentals, establish a strong public relations presence, and remain active on Reddit, which feeds AI crawlers. Keep your brand visible as user search behavior shifts.

Influencer marketing. Work with micro or mega influencers. Utilize TikTok Shops or user-generated content to expand reach and create authentic content.

Organic social. Build your brand with organic social content. Use it to increase awareness, create authenticity, and enhance your ads.

Global markets. Expand internationally only after significant sales. Start with English-speaking countries, then Europe or China. Consider regulatory and operational costs.

AOV. Increase average order value with bundling, price testing, and shipping thresholds. Promotions and quiet price adjustments can drive higher orders.

Post-purchase upsells. Offer complementary products immediately after purchase to increase revenue per customer.

Category expansion. Launch related products that pair with existing items to encourage multiple purchases.

A/B testing. Optimize and test website layout, marketing copy, promotions, pricing, and more to increase conversion rates.

Repeat orders. Encourage repeat purchases, especially for consumables. For slower-turnover items, target niche buyers, such as developers or bulk purchasers.

Loyalty programs. Be cautious with formal programs — they can backfire. Consider offering informal rewards for milestones, such as gifts after multiple orders.

Post-purchase flow. Ensure emails and communications reach customers, and use small surprises to delight them and create loyalty.

Surprise and delight. Over-deliver on promises. Include small gifts, such as planners or notes, to enhance the customer experience, especially for higher-end products.

Subscriptions. Optimize subscription offerings to keep customers engaged and revenue flowing.

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Aug 30 2025
Smarter Paths to Global Sales

On-again, off-again tariffs have not lessened the opportunities for cross-border expansion. Global consumers still seek quality goods from trusted merchants.

Yet success in international selling requires careful attention to fulfillment, customs, duties, and more. That’s the role of Passport, the provider of cross-border logistics, localization, and support for ecommerce sellers.

I recently spoke with Alex Yancher, Passport’s founder and CEO, on tactics for profitable global ecommerce sales. The entire audio of our conversation is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Who are you and what do you do?

Alex Yancher: I’m the founder and CEO of Passport. We help brands expand globally through two primary models.

The first is cross-border. We integrate with a brand directly or its third-party logistics provider to internationalize the site and ship products from the U.S. to worldwide destinations. What sets us apart is our own U.S. warehouses in Los Angeles, Chicago, and New Jersey, where we consolidate shipments before sending them abroad.

The second model, designed for larger brands, enables in-country operations. We help companies set up legally, fiscally, and operationally in markets such as Canada, the U.K., the E.U., Australia, Mexico, and even the U.S. Interestingly, one of our fastest-growing services is helping international brands establish operations in America.

We’re known in the industry as a parcel consolidator, competing with firms such as DHL eCommerce. We partner with about 180 3PLs, including ShipBob and ShipMonk. While smaller brands may ship only a few international orders per week, our consolidation model enables us to pool volume from many merchants. For some clients, we run daily full-truckload pickups during peak drops; for others, weekly less-than-truckload shipments are enough. This flexibility makes international fulfillment economical for brands of all sizes.

Bandholz: When should a company outsource international fulfillment?

Yancher: Many small brands start with USPS. It’s easy to use and integrates with tools such as ShipStation. However, USPS shipments are expensive and are usually delivered duty-unpaid. That means when a package arrives in Canada, for example, customers pick it up at the post office and pay taxes before possessing it. It’s a poor experience.

UPS and FedEx are alternatives, but they’re costly and often overkill. Transit times are fast, but most brands, especially subscription businesses, don’t need two-day delivery. That’s where consolidators such as Passport make sense. We not only reduce shipping costs but also enable a delivered-duty-paid model. Duties and taxes are calculated and paid at checkout, so the package clears customs seamlessly.

We typically require at least 10 pounds of daily shipments. That could mean one heavy item, such as a stroller, or dozens of smaller items, like phone cases. If a merchant ships only a few lightweight packages a day, we might offer only weekly pickups, which slows transit. To ensure speed and consistency, we work best with brands that regularly hit the 10-pound threshold.

Bandholz: What are Passport’s fees versus USPS or FedEx?

Yancher: At decent shipping volumes, we shouldn’t cost more than $10 per package — and with higher volume, even less. Compared to FedEx, we’re often $10-$15 cheaper.

The real savings come from prepaying duties. When consumers pay duties upon delivery, local postal services charge additional clearance fees to handle the process, such as sending notices, holding packages, and verifying IDs. In Canada, for example, it costs approximately $9 Canadian. Often, that’s more than the duties themselves, effectively doubling or tripling costs.

Beyond the fees, again, it’s a terrible customer experience. Recipients must rearrange their schedules to pick up the package and pay, which creates frustration and damages brand loyalty.

When I started Passport over eight years ago, most brands shipped Delivered Duty Unpaid, typically via USPS. Back then, about 70%-80% of international ecommerce orders were shipped that way. Today, it’s completely flipped — roughly 80% of orders now ship Delivered Duty Paid, with duties prepaid at checkout.

Bandholz: How do brands present duties and currency fluctuations at checkout?

Yancher: In many countries, such as the U.K., consumers expect the checkout total to include VAT, not listed as a separate line. Seeing duties or VAT listed separately feels foreign, lowers trust, and hurts conversion rates. Instead, brands should incorporate taxes and duties into the final price to present a single, straightforward number.

Another factor is price aesthetics. Customers respond better to clean numbers, such as $99 or €45, rather than, say, $43.72. Many brands lock in local prices to maintain that aesthetic, adjusting only when exchange rates shift significantly. For example, a product priced at €40 may increase to €45 if the currency moves strongly against the merchant.

This approach balances consistency, customer perception, and margin protection. In practice, exchange rates in key markets such as Canada, the U.K., and Australia don’t swing drastically day to day. They may move 7%-8% over 18 months, but rarely shift more than fractions of a percent daily. Rounding strategies and baked-in duties usually work well without requiring daily adjustments.

Bandholz: How does a brand selling cross-border know when to fulfill locally?

Yancher: We recommend in-country expansion once a brand reaches around $2 million in annual sales in a given market. At that level, the benefits outweigh the costs. For example, cross-border shipments from the U.S. to the U.K. typically take five to six business days and incur higher fees. With local fulfillment, shipping times drop to two days or less, and last-mile costs decrease by a few dollars per package. The value proposition improves dramatically.

There are also duty savings. If a $200 sweater ships from the U.S. to Canada, the customer might pay 15% duties, about $30. However, if the same sweater is imported directly into Canada, duties are applied to the cost of goods sold, which may be $20, reducing the tariffs to just $3. That difference can make pricing far more competitive and conversion rates stronger.

Returns are easier with local fulfillment as well. The challenge, however, is compliance. Once you warehouse inventory locally, you must meet that country’s regulatory and labeling requirements. That can be complex, but Passport helps brands navigate testing, compliance, and paperwork. We also serve as the importer of record, utilizing our local business registrations to shield brands from regulatory risk and expedite market entry.

Additionally, we connect brands with trusted fulfillment providers and offer affordable freight options. The goal is to make international expansion as turnkey and low-risk as possible, enabling brands to scale confidently once they hit that $2 million threshold.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you, support you, or buy your services?

Yancher: Our site is PassportGlobal.com. I’m on X and LinkedIn.

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Aug 23 2025
Triple Whale’s Moby AI Gets Things Done

We’ve all heard the buzz surrounding agentic AI agents. What’s missing for many of us is how they can help our business. What is an AI agent? Can it really perform tasks and get things done?

I asked those questions and more to Anthony DelPizzo. He’s with Triple Whale, the Shopify-backed ecommerce analytics platform that has launched its own AI agent called Moby. It responds to ChatGPT-like prompts, suggests marketing channels, and even composes emails.

The entire audio of our conversation is embedded below. The transcript is condensed and edited for clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Who are you, and what do you do?

Anthony DelPizzo: I lead product marketing at Triple Whale and have been here for about nine months. Before that, I spent nearly four years at Klaviyo.

Triple Whale is an analytics platform for ecommerce brands. We merge fragmented data across marketing and sales into a single system and dashboard to help merchants make strategic decisions. To date, we’ve processed over $65 billion in gross merchandise volume.

We launched Moby, an agentic AI agent, about a month ago after a long testing phase. Moby is a set of AI tools that interact directly with merchants’ data. Think of it as ChatGPT focused on the platforms you already work with. Merchants can ask Moby both simple and complex questions and get answers tailored to their own data.

Moby Agents take it a step further. They’re akin to autonomous teammates that can analyze information, generate insights, and even take actions across ad platforms, marketing channels, operations, and more. The result could be much higher conversions or lower overhead.

Moby is built on Triple Whale’s massive data warehouse. It draws on those benchmarks and works natively with metrics such as CAC and ROAS. By using the data, Moby can connect cleanly with large language models such as Anthropic and OpenAI for each type of query.

Moby is embedded within the Triple Whale platform. It doesn’t just analyze; it can also perform tasks such as activating ads or drafting emails.

Bandholz: Do you share customer data with those LLMs?

DelPizzo: We have privacy agreements with all LLM  partners. Data stays within Triple Whale’s private environment. We’re not sending entire datasets to Anthropic, OpenAI, or any other company. Instead, Moby provides context to the LLMs based on the prompt, allowing our customers to use the LLMs securely.

For example, a prompt could be, “How should I prepare for BFCM to grow revenue 30%?” Moby’s Deep Dive feature breaks requests like this into multiple steps, with each acting as an agent examining a different aspect of the business. The result is a structured plan merchants can use to prepare for Black Friday and Cyber Monday.

Merchants use Moby for general prompts and analysis, not just seasonal planning. We provide a prompting guide to help start with effective questions and then refine the queries through follow-ups.

Bandholz: Say I prompt Moby to analyze my sales, margins, and ads, for guidance. What then?

DelPizzo: Moby would connect to your data as a Triple Whale client — product margins, SKUs, ad performance, Klaviyo, Attentive, logistics, and more. By analyzing these inputs, it can identify growth levers, such as which products or channels drove profit last year and which ones are trending now. For instance, if a brand has started performing well on AppLovin, the mobile ad platform, Moby might suggest scaling there for BFCM.

Triple Whale’s platform includes eight attribution models, along with post-purchase surveys, to track what’s driving results. We’ve also added marketing mix modeling to measure the impact from click and non-click channels, including Amazon. Moby can run correlations at a statistically significant level, which gives merchants confidence in the conclusions.

Based on that, it forecasts likely outcomes tied to business goals. If a brand wants to grow revenue by 30%, Moby highlights which levers — spending, channels, creative — are likely to help reach that target. Merchants can even see Moby’s reasoning step by step, like watching strategists think through a plan.

Moby’s analysis isn’t limited to numbers. Using AI vision, it can review ad creative, such as color choices, hooks, and copy. It also analyzes email performance by scanning HTML, subject lines, and preview text. It can draft email copy informed by this analysis, giving merchants ideas to test.

Bandholz: Can you cite anonymous customer wins from Moby?

DelPizzo: We rolled out early access to Moby and Moby Agents in February, five months ago. In April, a $100 million global brand used it during a four-day giveaway. On the final day, the team asked Moby, “What should we adjust in our plan?”

Moby responded with a detailed budget allocation by channel and predicted the revenue impact. They followed it exactly and ended up having their highest revenue day ever — 35% above their previous record, more than $200,000 higher.

Another example is LSKD, a fitness apparel brand in Australia with more than 50 stores. They used Moby to analyze the performance of their marketing channels. One agent uncovered over $100,000 in fraudulent spend from an influencer’s self-bidding, which saved the company that money. Since adopting Moby Agents, LSKD’s ROAS has grown about 40%.

Bandholz: How can merchants go wrong with Moby?

DelPizzo: The most common challenge is trying to adopt too much at once. Success usually comes from starting small. We provide a library of 70 pre-built agents, but using all of them right away can feel overwhelming.

The best outcomes are from teams that begin with a single agent, adapt it to their business, and build confidence with steady results. From there, they expand to other areas — maybe they start with the conversion rate optimization team, then retention, then other steps in the funnel. That gradual approach tends to be more sustainable.

Bandholz: Why use Moby instead of building a custom data tool with an LLM such as DeepSeek?

DelPizzo: One factor is the dataset it draws from. Moby is trained on $65 billion in GMV and has access to broad ecommerce benchmarks. It’s not about sharing brand-specific data but rather using aggregated insights to provide context — like knowing typical CAC or ROAS levels in different industries, or, say, margins for apparel versus skincare.

Another piece is the infrastructure. Building from scratch requires a unified schema for orders, events, and performance data. At Triple Whale, our large team of engineers has worked on this for years, and it’s still evolving. Without that groundwork, it’s hard to achieve the same level of ecommerce-specific intelligence.

Custom setups are possible, but Moby combines benchmarks, context, and infrastructure in a way that’s difficult to replicate.

Bandholz: Where can people support you, follow you, reach out?

DelPizzo: Our site is TripleWhale.com. Our socials include X and LinkedIn. I’m on LinkedIn.

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Aug 16 2025
The Best Ecommerce Business Model

In this year’s “Ecommerce Conversations,” I’ve occasionally shared my experiences owning and operating Beardbrand, the direct-to-consumer brand I launched a decade ago. To date, I’ve addressed hiring, branding, profit-building, priority-setting, exiting, and overcoming a million-dollar loss.

In this installment, I share what I believe is the best bootstrapped ecommerce model and why others should consider it.

My entire audio dialog is embedded below. The transcript is condensed and edited for clarity.

Building a D2C brand is hard. Developing and selling products is a grind. A better path is a bootstrapped, sustainable business where you spend less than you make and enjoy the journey.

The purpose is not chasing giant exits or reinventing the world. It’s about building a lifestyle business — likely under a few million in annual revenue — that trades rapid top-line growth for lower stress, profitability, and freedom. It may never go mass market, but it can deliver a great life.

Agile Structure

When building an ecommerce business, aim to keep fixed, internal costs to a minimum. Take inspiration from Will Nitze of IQ Bar, who runs a lean team and outsources marketing, design, video, packaging, operations, and manufacturing. Outsourcing creates flexibility. Vendors that underperform are easily replaced.

In-house manufacturing ties you to equipment, facilities, and local employees. All reduce mobility. With an outsourced model, you can work from anywhere — even Denmark, where I am now — and still receive prototypes and manage operations. A remote setup opens the talent pool worldwide.

There are trade-offs. In-person collaboration can be valuable, but physical offices create obligations. I learned this the hard way with a five-year lease in Austin, Texas, that became unnecessary during Covid, costing us over $100,000 annually.

Local teams and on-site operations may suit folks who prefer a traditional setup. But if freedom matters — to travel, hire globally, pivot quickly — consider outsourcing from the start. I prefer flexibility, partnering with both in-house staff and external providers to keep my business agile.

Smart Niches

An ideal ecommerce product is small, lightweight, and consumable, serving a large audience with an average order value of $75–$125. This price range makes customer acquisition easier and ad testing faster. The challenge: It’s highly competitive, especially in the supplements, beauty, and premium beverage sectors, such as specialty coffee or tea.

Other strong options are non-consumables that share those traits, such as a Ridge pocket knife — easy to ship, high perceived value. Consider untapped luxury niches. Affluent customers value convenience, presentation, and uniqueness far more than price.

For inspiration, visit luxury department stores such as Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue. Observe what sells and why someone might pay 10 times more than a viable alternative. Avoid trend-driven categories, such as fashion, which require constant reinvention. Instead, focus on evergreen household goods with a unique twist for a small but willing-to-pay market.

While these niches won’t create billion-dollar companies, they can deliver low-stress, highly profitable businesses — think $750,000 in annual revenue with $250,000 in profit — without the complexity of endless SKUs, large teams, or operational headaches.

Margin Power

It’s possible to build a $750,000 ecommerce business that nets $250,000, but only if you manage gross margins — aim for 90%. For example, sell an item costing $6 for $60. You’ll still retain around 80% after shipping, taxes, and delivery costs. High margins are non-negotiable for a low-stress operation.

Conversely, products with tighter margins attract price-sensitive customers, which leads to increased returns, complaints, and support tickets. Serving customers with disposable income reduces friction because they’re less likely to demand refunds.

At a $115 average sale, $750,000 in annual revenue equates to roughly 6,520 orders — just 18 per day. One person can fulfill this volume, or with minimal help, generating perhaps only a few support tickets per week.

If margins leave $650,000 after cost of goods, and you spend $400,000 on marketing, you’ll retain $250,000 profit. The model works, but launching it — higher-priced products in a niche — requires time and testing. It won’t be easy to stand out, but with the right offer, it’s a manageable, profitable, and less stressful way to run a business.

Trusted Voice

Every high-end ecommerce brand needs a trusted public advocate — someone who can vouch for the quality, experience, and value of the product. It doesn’t have to be a celebrity. It can be the owner, provided she’s willing to be the face of the brand.

The advocate’s role is to build trust, communicate the product’s value, and demonstrate how it improves customers’ lives. Titles alone aren’t enough. An advocate must have influence and sales ability. Without this trust, it’s nearly impossible to command premium prices.

You may need to sell to an audience you’re not part of. That requires shedding your own “value shopper” mindset to learn how target customers buy. Experience their lifestyle, understand why they pay more, and embrace their perspective. This shift in thinking can be the key to unlocking growth.

Creative Edge

Innovation is essential. If you can’t create something unique, this model may not work. Competitors will copy your ideas and undercut your prices. Success requires loyalty and brand affinity, and thus customers who won’t switch to save $30 — or $100.

Luxury beauty brands such as La Mer skincare succeed not only from functional superiority, but also because of their storytelling, perceived exclusivity, and trust. The challenge for like-minded entrepreneurs is to create an experience and narrative so compelling that customers believe no substitute can match it.

In premium markets, even a few thousand loyal customers can sustain a profitable, low-stress business — if your innovation keeps them hooked.

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Aug 9 2025
How to Achieve Negative CAC

Customer acquisition costs can ruin a business. Some merchants limit acquisition spend to the gross margin of the first sale. Others look to customers’ lifetime value.

Yet Taylor Holiday, CEO of the agency Common Thread Collective, profits from acquisition marketing. He calls it “negative CAC.”

Taylor first appeared on the podcast in 2020. In our recent conversation, he explained his acquisition strategy, experiences with employee ownership, and more.

The audio from our entire discussion is embedded below. The transcript is condensed and edited for clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Give us the rundown.

Taylor Holiday: I’m the CEO of Common Thread Collective, an ecommerce marketing agency that helps brands grow predictably and profitably. We’ve been at it for over a decade. Recently, we partnered with Acacia, a private equity firm, to expand our platform and pursue the next phase of growth.

We operate with an employee stock ownership plan, an ESOP. Our company took a bank loan to buy 20% of equity from existing shareholders and placed it in a trust for employees. Shares are allocated annually based on each employee’s salary as a percentage of total payroll. For example, if payroll is $1 million and you earn $100,000, you’d get 10% of each share allocation.

Employees receive shares tax-free, with no purchase cost. If they leave, the company must buy back their shares, making them relatively liquid. ESOPs can buy out partners or provide owner liquidity, but they require education, vesting schedules, and carry liabilities on the balance sheet. Well-known companies like King’s Hawaiian are fully employee-owned.

Bandholz: Would you do it again?

Holiday: Probably not. Employees didn’t fully understand the ESOP, and it didn’t change behavior as I’d hoped. Plus, it complicates an eventual sale of a business, and the operational challenges are significant.

There’s a book on “community capitalism” that explores alternatives to pure capitalism and socialism. Capitalism can overly concentrate wealth, while socialism has its flaws. Many people sense the shortcomings of both systems but haven’t found a perfect alternative. For me, the ESOP wasn’t that solution. It was a noble attempt, but I don’t believe it resolves the core issues — and maybe nothing fully can, given human nature.

Bandholz: Before this interview, you referenced negative customer acquisition costs. Can you talk about that?

Holiday: Negative CAC means our marketing generates profit instead of being a cost. Initially, our podcast, videos, and email newsletter were purely for lead generation — effective but costly to scale. We realized these were valuable media assets for which companies, especially software vendors in our space, would pay to access our audience.

By selling sponsorships to our podcast, email list, YouTube channel, and social content, we offset production costs and, in some cases, made them profitable. This shift turned marketing into a profit center, improving margins and fueling growth.

There’s currently high advertiser demand, but a limited supply of quality, ecommerce-focused media. A small group of creators dominates sponsorships because they have niche authority. However, most operate independently with fragmented sales processes and no funding for new content creation.

I see an opportunity to unite strong content creators, build a shared sales engine, and package sponsorship offerings, similar to how The Ringer network scaled before being acquired by Spotify. Whether it’s launching new shows or helping others monetize existing ones, it’s about building the pipeline, finding sponsors, and providing the resources many creators lack.

Many brands turn costly activities into content that drives sales. For example, Vktry (pronounced “victory”), a performance insole company, outfits entire sports teams, such as UCLA volleyball. Vktry films the training sessions and uses that authentic, authority-rich footage as ad content. What would typically be a sales or training expense becomes a marketing asset, fueling ads and reducing acquisition costs.

Another example is Alex Hormozi, co-founder of Acquisition.com, a business education firm, who hosts high-ticket weekend seminars. Attendees pay to learn, and he films the sessions for ongoing distribution. He’s essentially getting paid to produce content that generates more revenue, creating a self-sustaining cycle.

In contrast, most ecommerce brands spend heavily on production, then on distribution, and hope the ads meet their CAC goals. Finding ways to subsidize or monetize production upfront can turn marketing into a profit driver rather than a cost center.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you, learn from you, and use your services?

Holiday: Our website is CommonThreadCo.com. I’m on X (with open DMs) and LinkedIn.

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Aug 2 2025
The No-Surprise 3PL Pricing Model

John Melizanis believes third-party logistics fees often produce surprise charges. Per-item pricing for picks, packs, and receiving can turn an anticipated $1 per order fee into $2.50 or more, he says.

John is the co-founder of ShipDudes, a New Jersey-based 3PL launched in 2020. His company uses flat-rate pricing for pick-and-pack and warehousing, and no markup for shipping. “Brands appreciate knowing their exact costs,” he told me.

In our recent conversation, John addressed the origins of ShipDudes, in-store retail, warehouse automation, and more.

The entire audio of our conversation is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: What do you do?

John Melizanis: I’m a co-founder of ShipDudes, an omnichannel fulfillment company in New Jersey. We help ecommerce brands ship worldwide and break into physical retail. We’re the behind-the-scenes engine for many companies sold in Sephora, GNC, and Vitamin Shoppe.

Beyond shipping, we support brands with EDI integrations, labeling, and compliance, essential for clients entering retail for the first time. Retail logistics can be demanding; missed labels or late deliveries can result in chargebacks. We’ve built systems to handle these challenges both operationally and technologically.

We serve three primary channels: direct-to-consumer, marketplaces such as Amazon and Chewy, and in-store retail. Our tech stack integrates across all of them. We initially developed custom software, but now utilize a white-labeled platform that we’ve heavily customized.

I began fulfilling orders in a garage, using shipping software Pirate Ship and dropping off hundreds of packages at the post office. As we evolved into a full 3PL, it became clear that some fulfillment platforms fall short in terms of inventory tracking and order verification. Our system tracks everything — pick, pack, and ship — down to barcode scans.

Bandholz: How do you handle custom packaging?

Melizanis: We understand that some brands require custom inserts, folded boxes, or more intricate packaging. Internally, we group clients into three phases: startup, scale-up, and enterprise. It’s not just about size but also how operationally mature the brand is.

We support complex packaging needs but also offer guidance on ways to simplify without sacrificing brand identity. Some brands follow our advice, others don’t, but we always offer it.

Bandholz: What about employee training?

Melizanis: It all starts with a process. If the process is solid and an employee still struggles, he’s likely not a good fit.

Every pack station has printed standard operating procedures in English and Spanish, with visuals — key for our Spanish-speaking staff. We emphasize the importance of their work: “Someone paid $100 for this order. How would you feel getting the wrong item?”

We instill that mindset daily to build pride and ownership. Cameras at each station provide accountability. If there’s a customer issue, we review the footage. If it’s a recurring mistake, we coach, revisit SOPs, and retrain.

It’s not perfect. Some hires won’t work out. But we give everyone a fair shot. If they can’t follow the process, they’re not right for the team.

Bandholz: What’s the future of robotic picking?

Melizanis: I’ve seen hybrid systems with robots retrieving from bins like giant vending machines. They’re not as expensive as you’d think and can run 24/7. We’ll likely invest in something like that for picking in the next few years.

Still, people aren’t going away entirely. Many of our clients expect a high-touch experience, including custom tissue paper, inserts, and folded boxes. That level of care still needs a human. I see automation handling repetitive tasks such as picking, while packing remains more manual for brands that value the unboxing experience.

Picking is a major expense. In a 50,000-square-foot warehouse, walking from one item to another adds up quickly. Automation could significantly reduce those costs.

But packing is also expensive, especially for premium brands. It requires someone who understands the brand and packs thoughtfully. Ever get a small item in a giant Amazon box? That’s what happens when automation replaces human oversight.

Automation can optimize picking, but humans remain vital for packing, especially when presentation matters.

Bandholz: How can brands reduce 3PL and shipping costs?

Melizanis: It starts with product design. Size, weight, and fragility all impact expense. Bigger items cost more to ship and pack. Brands with low SKU variation and simple products are far easier and cheaper to fulfill at scale.

The ideal ecommerce product is small, lightweight, durable, and fits in a bubble mailer. That minimizes fulfillment costs and maximizes margins. Not every brand can do that, but if you’re developing products, it’s worth giving serious thought to.

As for shipping costs, we use different carriers for different needs. For small, lightweight, durable products, DHL and regional carriers such as Lone Star Overnight, TForce Freight, and OSM can be cost-effective.

For larger or heavier items, USPS has robust programs, and FedEx and UPS offer solid, reliable service, although they tend to be more expensive. For customer experience, FedEx or UPS Ground is probably your best bet.

People often forget about injection points. Where your package enters the carrier network matters. A rural USPS drop-off might be slower (or faster) than one in a metro hub, depending on the volume and routing.

There’s no one-size-fits-all. You need to match the right carrier to your product type, ship-from location, and customer expectations.

Bandholz: Does ShipDudes use itemized pricing like most 3PLs, or flat rates?

Melizanis: We avoid itemized pricing. Most 3PLs have multiple fees — picks, inserts, receiving, spot checks. Brands sometimes think they’re paying $1 per order but end up paying $2.50 or more.

We use a flat pick-and-pack rate. Multiply your orders by that rate, and that’s what you pay — no surprises. We calculated it based on the average number of picks per order.

We handle storage the same way: one all-in pallet fee, no added spot check or counting charges. We’re not the cheapest or most expensive, but we’re the simplest. Brands appreciate knowing their exact costs.

We also eliminated the typical 3PL communication mess. Every brand gets a dedicated Slack channel with on-site support and account managers.

Shipping is our third and final billing item, and it’s a pass-through. We negotiate competitive rates, calculate all surcharges, and pass them along directly. It saves clients time, money, and confusion.

Bandholz: How can people connect with you?

Melizanis: Our website is ShipDudes.com. Check out our podcast, “New Money Talks.” I’m on LinkedIn.

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Jul 26 2025
Facebook ‘Megaphone’ Powers D2C Watch Brand

Nate Lagos is vice president of marketing for Original Grain, a direct-to-consumer watch maker. He relies on Facebook advertising, but not for immediate customer acquisition.

“Platforms such as Facebook are megaphones, not salespeople,” he says.

In our recent conversation, Nate shared his marketing origins, advertising tactics, influencer management, and more.

Our entire audio conversation is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Give us a quick rundown of who you are and what you do.

Nate Lagos: I’m the vice president of marketing at Original Grain, a watch company that blends wood and steel to create timepieces that guys want to wear. I’ve been here four years, leading growth through product innovation and creative marketing campaigns. Before that, I served as CMO for a couple of smaller ecommerce brands.

The last four years at OG have been exciting, fast-paced, and at times stressful — but extremely rewarding.

My marketing journey started in college. I fell in love with the subject after my first class, but quickly realized school wouldn’t teach me how to thrive in the real world. I had one great professor, but most classes fell short. I began freelancing during my sophomore year, running organic and paid social campaigns for local businesses, and built from there.

I host a twice-weekly podcast called “Tactical & Practical.” Each episode is 10-12 minutes and delves into a single tactic we’re using or a challenge I’m facing. The goal is to create the kind of honest, tactical content I wish I had at my first CMO job at age 24, when I had no idea what I was doing.

Bandholz: How do you approach media buying and ad strategy?

Lagos: I see advertising as a way to amplify great brands, not as a tool to acquire customers directly. Platforms such as Facebook are megaphones, not salespeople. I pour budget into that megaphone because impressions have long-term value, even if they don’t immediately convert.

Nearly all of our ad budget goes to Facebook, primarily for conversion campaigns. Our average order value for new customers is $360. Their buying decisions often take months. So, we don’t obsess over daily customer acquisition costs — we focus on consistent awareness and brand affinity that pays off during key moments, such as the holidays.

Our performance metric is straightforward: If we spend $10,000 promoting a watch and earn $40,000 from it, the ads are effective, regardless of Facebook’s internal metrics. If we only make $11,000, we cut spend, test new creative, or shift messaging.

We typically advertise our top five watches, not our entire catalog. We structure our campaigns by collection, and we measure success both at the individual product level and the collection-level return-on-ad-spend. Meta accounts for 95% of our spend. The rest goes to Google, YouTube, and influencers, which we’d like to grow, though they’re harder to scale and produce content for.

Bandholz: What’s your strategy for changing ad creative on Meta?

Lagos: I’m still figuring that out. Historically, we didn’t launch a large number of ads — typically around 10–15 per week — even as we grew by over 100% last year from an eight-figure base. This year, we’ve ramped that up to 30–40 ads weekly. It’s not because we need more volume to find winners, but because Facebook won’t allocate spend unless we launch more.

The platform tends to push our top-performing ads, which is fine until those ads plateau. Previously, we could introduce new creative into the same ad set, and Facebook would distribute spend. That’s no longer happening. By increasing volume, we’re now seeing new ads spend faster and find winners more quickly.

Our full-time photographer is also our creative inspiration, handling graphic design and brand direction. We hired an operations lead earlier this year. He focuses on Klaviyo and Postscript scheduling and helps out with social and influencer campaigns. So there are three of us on the team.

Most of our messaging angles come from copy I test directly on our site. Once we see what converts there, we repurpose that language into ads.

Bandholz: Thirty pieces of content weekly takes work.

Lagos: Approximately one-third of our content consists of iterations of past winners — duplicate headlines, graphics, and photography styles. If a creative is performing, we replicate it across our top five watches and underperformers we want to push.

For new content, Chris (our creative lead) and I brainstorm weekly using a shared Canva board. I lean toward old-school inspiration — vintage Rolex and cigarette ads — while he pulls modern ecommerce and consumer-focused examples. We compare notes on what we like and dislike, and adapt our messaging and offers to those styles.

We’re intentional with testing. If we’re trying a new visual format, we’ll pair it with a proven offer, headline, and watch. If it flops, we know it’s the visual that didn’t land, not the copy or the product. It helps us stay efficient and avoid confusion when something doesn’t work.

Bandholz: What makes your top product so successful?

Lagos: We launched our top-selling watch two years ago. It’s an automatic skeleton-dial watch, so you see all the inner mechanics. It’s black-plated stainless steel with charred whiskey barrel wood, and that combo crushes. Since then, we’ve launched other watches using similar elements, and many have worked. Our founders do an incredible job designing them.

I’ve learned it’s not the marketing that determines success. We launched this watch with the same email, ad, and strategy as others. So when one sells out and the other doesn’t, no one blames marketing — it’s all about product-market fit.

Keeping this watch in stock has been the real challenge. We launched 400 units in November 2023, and they sold out quickly. We thought it was holiday timing, but it continued to sell — 500 more, then thousands for Father’s Day, and then a massive run in Q4 2024. Eventually, I raised prices and pulled back ads to slow sales.

Bandholz: You mentioned influencers. What’s your strategy?

Lagos: We’re lucky because we’re our own target audience — 35 to 50-year-old guys who drink whiskey and love outdoorsy, rugged stuff. So we’re already fans of the people we end up working with. We also survey our customers about their music and sports preferences to guide our influencer selection.

Our outreach is mostly manual. We send cold direct messages, and I occasionally reach out to agents on LinkedIn. Having big-name partners such as Jack Daniel’s and Taylor Guitars gives us instant credibility. Influencers take us seriously when they see who we work with.

We don’t do affiliate or revenue share. It doesn’t align with our long purchase cycles. Instead, we pay a flat fee for a set number of posts or YouTube inclusions. Instagram collaborations let us repurpose posts as ads. They aren’t high converters but deliver great impression and click costs.

We use codes and links to track YouTube performance and calculate revenue per thousand impressions. Some audiences, such as whiskey content creators, bring $80 RPMs, while lifestyle comedians bring $20. As long as we pay below those amounts, the channel works. We’ve also had success with truck, outdoors, and even music creators, although music has been hit or miss.

Bandholz: Where can people buy your watches and reach out?

Lagos: OriginalGrain.com. I’m on X and LinkedIn. My podcast is Tactical & Practical.

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