Viahart Founder Eyes Sales in China

Contrary to much U.S. sentiment, Molson Hart sees opportunity in China. His direct-to-consumer toy brand, Viahart, sells mostly on Amazon, though growth has slowed in recent years. China, he says, offers promise.

In this our third interview (following episodes in 2022 and 2024), he shares his plans to sell toys in that market, addressing Chinese cultural nuances, legalities, shopping preferences, and more.

Our entire audio, recorded from an X live stream, is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Tell us what you’re up to.

Molson Hart: About 15 years ago, I founded Viahart, a direct-to-consumer educational toy brand. In 2017, I co-launched a legal tech firm with my brother to detect intellectual property infringement. We sold that company in 2024.

I continue to operate Viahart. Most sales come through Amazon, though we also sell through other ecommerce channels as well as wholesale and brick-and-mortar channels worldwide.

Bandholz: Do you see agentic shopping disrupting Amazon?

Hart: Yes, absolutely. At some point, consumers will switch from Google-style searches on Amazon to ChatGPT-style conversations, such as “I’m looking for this type of product.” The chatbot would then respond with options.

That will change ecommerce, presumably including Amazon, although it has an amazing logistical moat that is not easily penetrated. Meaningful competition to Amazon must go beyond software.

Bandholz: How do geopolitical uncertainties impact ecommerce?

Hart: I thought the depreciating dollar meant I needed more sales outside the U.S., but now the dollar is rising against almost every currency other than China’s renminbi. Who knows how things will shake out?

Still, I’m focused on being as diversified as possible. There are structural problems in the U.S., which aren’t getting better. At some point, we can no longer sweep them under the rug.

I’ve adopted a contrarian approach with China. We are now trying to sell our toy products there. It’s an enormously difficult market for foreign merchants. We may lose money for a while, but we’ll learn a lot too. Eventually, it will make financial sense for us.

Selling directly on China-based marketplaces requires setting up a business there: committing capital, retaining a legal representative, and, depending on the product, obtaining certifications. Someone will visit our manufacturer in China to certify we’re suitable for making educational toys.

Foreign sellers in the U.S. have none of those requirements. Yet other things in China are better. Marketplace referral fees are much lower than in the U.S.  There is more live selling, more social media, more shoppable videos. I’m excited to get started.

Bandholz: You speak Chinese. That must help.

Hart: Given the power of today’s AI translation tools, speaking the language is not essential. I’ve spent a lot of time there. It’s more important to understand the culture.

We don’t run a high-margin business in the U.S. But China offer a different story. Pedestrian U.S. brands — McDonald’s, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken — are more upscale in China.

The upshot is foreign brands can price a little higher. Plus, in my experience, 3PLs in China are more accurate than in the U.S., and I don’t have to worry over fulfillment costs since we’re going luxury. So I’m optimistic.

To me, the China market resembles Japan’s in the 80s and 90s, when it was a huge channel for American goods. But China’s market is 10 times Japan’s. American companies can certainly be successful.

Bandholz: So Chinese consumers welcome American products and brands?

Hart: It varies by vertical and by the person. An office employee in Shanghai will likely be more accepting than a factory worker in an outlying province such as Guangdong or Henan.

U.S.-China relations in the past six months haven’t helped, but in some ways it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, a great product will do well. Apple sells very well in China, for example, though not as well as five, 10 years ago.

The Chinese as a group are pretty nationalist. They believe historically and culturally that China is the center of the world. The country’s name in Chinese is Zhongguo, which is literally “the Middle Kingdom.” Residents generally see the last 100, 200 years as an aberration, with power shifting to Europe and then the United States.

Our Brain Flakes is an interlocking, science- and math-focused toy. I’m unsure how it fits into Chinese culture. Do we promote it as a kit to build the Great Wall, the Chinese flag, or similar? Again, it depends on the person.

It’s essential, too, to understand the cultural peculiarities. Chinese consumers are extremely price sensitive. They love coupons and getting the lowest possible price. They love saving money.

Yet frugality has its limits there. Chinese people generally like luxury products. You won’t see anyone haggling over the purchase of a Louis Vuitton bag. To be rich is to be respected in Chinese society. So if you’re affluent enough to afford a Louis Vuitton bag, go for it.

But again, luxury or not, foreign sellers with good products and patience will have success.

Remember, too, that many Chinese people — hundreds of millions — have never spoken to a foreigner. Having a conversation with a live-selling foreigner is still rare. It’s very exciting for them. The product may not go viral, but it will certainly get interest on social media.

Bandholz: Where can folks follow you and buy your toys?

Hart: Follow me on TikTok, LinkedIn, or X. Buy our products on BrainFlakes.com, on TigerhartToys.com (both are Viahart brands), or on Amazon.

Surviving D2C’s Boom and Bust

Chris Wichert is an investment banker turned direct-to-consumer entrepreneur.

His luxury shoe brand, Koio, launched in 2015 and quickly scaled. Then the pandemic hit. By late 2022, he says, the D2C hype and funding had collapsed.

He slashed costs, stabilized cash flow, and successfully exited the company. In our recent conversation, he shared his story of boom, bust, and survival.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Give us the rundown.

Chris Wichert: I co-founded Koio, a luxury footwear brand, in 2015. We exited the brand six months ago, and I helped with the transition. I’m now advising other consumer brands on how to reach profitability and stay there.

I’m from Germany. I started my career in investment banking, then moved to the U.S. for my Wharton MBA, where I met my Koio co-founder.

I live in Brooklyn, New York.

Bandholz: Did Wharton help with the launch?

Wichert: Not directly, but the Wharton School connections were conversation starters for raising money. We moved to New York after graduating.

Our first financing round, about $1.5 million, came 12 months after our launch. The money got us started, but it also set us up for the wrong path. Building a luxury D2C brand with a high average order value requires patience. You have to keep investing to eventually see the compounding effect after five, six, seven years.

We ended up raising close to $20 million over a decade. It was a mix of venture capitalists, family offices like the Winklevosses, and other D2C entrepreneurs.

We used the money initially to fund inventory and build our team. Our first hire was for operations. Our second was for marketing.

We learned quickly that selling a $300 shoe requires a strong brand and credibility. It takes a lot of investment in media outreach, pop-up stores, and retail. Our sales increased when people saw our shoes in person, tried them on, and felt the leather. So we went into retail and digital early on as a dual strategy.

We experienced great growth for the first five years. Our biggest raise, $10 million, came in 2019. But the pandemic wiped out our retail business. We had five stores at the time. Plus, our use case was gone. Our shoes were dress sneakers for dates and nice occasions.

By late 2022, early 2023, the D2C hype and funding had collapsed. Valuations plummeted.

That forced us to make big changes. We were losing roughly $3 million per year with no growth. The company was way too complex and costly. Our SKUs had expanded from men’s dress sneakers into boots, loafers, and slip-ons, for men and women.

We interviewed around 100 customers. We learned that the product expansion was detrimental to the brand. Our messaging was unclear.

We went back to the core items. Then we cut 70% of our New York team, which was painful. We closed the office and transitioned to remote only. We also closed unprofitable dropship accounts and stores. Then we rehired certain remote roles internationally.

Over the ensuing 12-18 months, we reached break-even profitability.

By then, neither my co-founder nor I wanted to keep running the business. We had an obligation to our investors and remaining employees to end the company in the best possible way.

So, I reached out to many people in D2C, especially footwear and apparel brands, to explore an exit or merger. That process was cumbersome.

It took almost two years, but we got a competitive process underway and spoke with several interested parties. We found a trustworthy acquirer who owns several brands and closed the deal with him in August of last year.

The transition lasted just six months. My co-founder and I remain shareholders. We believe in the company and wanted to ensure operational and brand consistency.

We also wanted to integrate our employees into the workflow.

Bandholz: You’ve pivoted to an advisory role.

Wichert: I’ve built a great network of consumer-brand entrepreneurs over the years. I love the industry and want to share my knowledge and experience.

I’m now working with founders across different consumer categories, such as skincare, footwear, eyewear, watches, you name it.

Bandholz: How can people reach out?

Wichert: Learn more about our shoe company at Koio.co. I’m on LinkedIn and X.

Iris Founder Talks AI-Powered Finance

I’ve interviewed a slew of impressive entrepreneurs on this podcast. Drew Fallon is among the most versatile. He and I last spoke in 2022 when he had co-founded a tattoo skincare company. Before that he was an investment banker.

He now runs Iris, an AI-driven financial modeling platform, while also tracking and reporting on consumer-focused M&A transactions.

In our recent conversation, he shared the benefits of agent-powered automation, common merchant use cases, and, yes, the enterprise M&A boom in 2026.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: What the heck do you do?

Drew Fallon: I’m the founder and CEO of Iris. We work with brands to deploy AI agents and automate many of their financial and operational workflows.

Prior to Iris, I was a co-founder of the tattoo skincare company Mad Rabbit for about five years, serving as CFO and COO. Before that I was an investment banker. Iris launched two years ago.

Bandholz: I’ve seen your social media posts announcing M&A deals. How do you obtain that info?

Fallon: I’ve got a handful of AI agents that crawl the web. They know what I’ve written and care about. They will surface those types of stories to me. I then pick them and blast them out.

The last couple of weeks have been crazy. Unilever scooped up Grüns, the nutritional gummy snacks, for $1.2 billion. The Finnish Long Drink, a citrus-flavored alcohol beverage, has just sold to the Mark Anthony Group, the company that owns White Claw. Huel, a British meal-replacement company, sold for $1.1 billion to Danone, the global food and beverage giant.

A lot is going on now, but very few big deals occurred in 2025. You had Poppi and Siete Foods, both acquired by PepsiCo. But overall the year was pretty lackluster for M&A.

But now we’re seeing deals of all sizes. There was a lot of pent-up demand, in part from privacy equity firms that had raised a lot of money.

Bandholz: Should today’s brands focus on mass consumers or on high-price-point niches?

Fallon: I would avoid price-conscious shoppers, especially if I were an emerging brand. It’s much better to pursue a high-dollar niche. Beardbrand, your company, is a good example. Not every dude with a beard will spend the money on your products, but those who really care about their beard will.

We’re seeing good traction with premium supplements, beauty, apparel, and food and beverage niches.

Bandholz: Tell us more about Iris’s use of AI.

Fallon: We started the company roughly when ChatGPT launched. I knew I had to be involved with that industry. Think of Iris as the data infrastructure to deploy AI agents. We integrate with Shopify, Amazon, Walmart, Facebook, Gusto, Rippling, bank accounts, credit cards, Bill.com, QuickBooks, and others.

We operate like a centralized data warehouse. We transform the data so AI agents can use it easily. Our agents are purpose-built for automating finance workflows. But the Iris infrastructure could create all sorts of agents. We’ve chosen to tackle financial models, inventory needs, business intelligence dashboards, cash flow forecasts — pretty much anything that an internal or fractional CFO would do.

For example, we help merchants determine how much to spend on customer acquisition. We’ll analyze variables such as gross margin, channel mix, operating expenses, and cash balances. A client could ask us for the profitability of $60, $70, or $80 CAC. We’ll provide the trade-offs for each and suggest the best channels for scaling.

Our inventory planning models are demand-driven. We first predict sales, then we look at the historical product mix, both seasonally and in aggregate. From there, it’s a basic mathematical model to estimate product distribution, such as 15% for beard oil, 25% for balm, and so on.

We can also model inventory velocity in December versus July, for example.

Bandholz: How can people hire you or reach out?

Fallon: Our site is IrisFinance.co. I’m on X and LinkedIn. My Substack newsletter is “Making Cents.”

EcomFuel Founder on 2026 Industry Trends

For years EcomFuel has surveyed its community of ecommerce merchants about their growth, margins, tactics, and more. The company released this year’s findings last week.

Founder Andrew Youderian recaps the report in this episode, addressing the state of ecommerce among 300 participating businesses.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Give us a rundown of what you do.

Andrew Youderian: I run a company and community called eComFuel. My background is in starting and operating ecommerce businesses. We have an online message board, online forum, events, reviews, and research.

Our “2026 Ecommerce Trends Report” is based on responses from 300 store owners — mostly seven, eight, and nine-figure brands — who answered 50 questions.

We ask about traffic, margins, Amazon, warehousing, AI, business models, tariffs, and more. We don’t track the number of merchants who have exited the industry. People join and leave our community every month for various reasons. When asked, some say they’re closing their business. It peaked 12 to 18 months ago. I’m a little more optimistic about ecommerce for the next couple of years.

Going forward, successful brands will likely be smaller with loyal customers. They will make interesting products. They won’t grow as fast, but they’ll be much stickier and more durable in the long term.

The number of respondents in our report who manufacture products increased by 50% over the past three years. All other models were either flat or down. Respondents who resell products are largely unchanged. Private label sellers were down significantly. Drop shipping was down 50%. Merchants are adjusting to a new reality.

In 2017, about 20% of respondents’ total revenue came from Amazon. It subsequently spiked to about 28%. It’s now back to 20%, despite 63% selling on that marketplace.

I respect how Amazon built out its infrastructure for the long term. They’re not going anywhere, but the types of products they sell will likely be either very low-end or very high-end. They’ve lost the middle tier.

Bandholz: Have you tracked AI’s financial impact?

Youderian: For the trends report, we asked, “Have you meaningfully incorporated AI into your business?” Seventy-two percent of respondents said yes. The top four use cases were, in order, copywriting, images, analytics, and coding.

Certainly some merchants have dialed in AI and are seeing strong benefits. But most are still in the investment stage.

For example, EcomFuel has heavily invested in AI over the last year. We’ve built proprietary AI tools. But we’ve not seen great ROI from those efforts. That seems to be what’s happening for most ecommerce companies.

One of the most surprising findings in this year’s survey was the ages of AI adopters. Roughly 90% of respondents under 30 are using AI. But folks in their 30s are investing less than those in the 40- to 54-year-old cohort. Anecdotally, we’re seeing merchants build impressive in-house operational tools, and most are 40 or older.

Bandholz: Where can people join your community or reach out?

Youderian: Our site is eCommerceFuel.com. I’m on LinkedIn and X. I also host “The eComFuel Podcast.”

My Ideal Second Business

Molson Hart is the founder of Viahart, a D2C toy brand, and Edison, a legal technology company. He says every entrepreneur should own two businesses, where one offers more opportunities to scale, is more profitable, or diversifies risk.

I’m all in on Beardbrand, my own D2C brand launched in 2014. Molson is a two-time guest on the podcast. His comment got me thinking about an attractive second company, one that would enhance my life without creating stress and headaches.

So in this episode I’ll depart from my typical guest interviews and, instead, describe my ideal business.

My entire audio narrative is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

My optimal business is an ecommerce brand that sells easy-to-ship products. The items are likely small and, importantly, consumable. Once acquired, a customer would buy two or three times. The products would emphasize both value and prestige, with gross margins that at least cover acquisition ads on Meta.

Lastly, the products appeal to a large enough market to differentiate, niche down, and target the right audience.

So what are those?

Sean Frank is CEO of Ridge, the D2C wallet provider, and a veteran of this podcast. One could argue Ridge’s wallets are consumable: Release new versions, and they become fashion items, enticing repeat buyers.

Yet to me, consumables are what go in or on my body, what I eat or apply every day, such as food, supplements, and personal care goods. For ideas, I would walk into a grocery store, a Walmart, or a Target and just look around. What are folks buying? Which brands are old and stuffy, ripe for disruption?

Examples

Native has moved beyond deodorant, its original product. Moiz Ali, a former guest on this show, launched the deodorant-only brand in 2015 and reached $100 million in annual revenue within a couple of years. Native now sells multiple consumables: skincare, hand soap, toothpaste, and hair products.

Harry’s launched in 2012 as a D2C shaving goods provider, an affordable alternative to dominant players such as Gillette and Schick. The company was wildly successful.

Native and Harry’s focused on staples that consumers use daily.

Seven Sundays launched in 2011 at a Minneapolis farmers’ market. The founders, having realized that most cereal manufacturers used glyphosate-treated wheat and high-fructose corn syrup, offered a cleaner, healthier granola at a higher price point. It’s now a Certified B, ecommerce powerhouse.

Goodles sells a product every parent can appreciate: healthy macaroni and cheese for kids. The brand launched in 2020 with nutritious selections in bright, colorful packaging and fun product names, such as Shella Good and Twist My Parm. It’s another upstart challenging a dominant brand (Kraft) in a big market.

Opportunities

So the opportunities for me lie in creating new products in sizeable markets dominated by stale, out-of-touch providers.

I would differentiate those products in one of three ways.

First is better quality — superior ingredients or components. Parents who prioritize nutrition are unlikely to buy Kraft Mac and Cheese, but they would consider Goodles, even at a higher price. That’s one way to distinguish.

Another way is innovative packaging. Many entrepreneurs overlook this opportunity. Go again to Walmart, Target, and even trade shows. How are products presented and packaged? I’ve seen incredible packaging designs over the years. I once saw packaging for a cosmetic cream where users twisted a bottle cap and pumped the cream into a built-in bowl at the top, to then mix it before applying to their face.

The third way is branding. It’s often easier to launch a brand named after the products it sells or the audience it targets. But doing that can restrict the company later, when the market shifts. Vacation.inc avoids that trap. Founded in 2021, the brand sells sunscreen but can easily pivot to other products and services should the market evolve.

Cool Products

It rarely makes sense to exactly replicate what another entrepreneur has started. Don’t listen to a successful owner on a podcast like this and think, “That guest is killing it. I’m going to do the exact same thing.”

Often the owner has not proven the business over the long term, and regardless, copying her merely carves up that audience. Instead, learn from successful brands such as Vacation, Inc., and apply their tactics to an entirely different market.

Have some fun. Make your own cool products.

Content Beats Design, Says CRO Pro

Dave Diederen is a Netherlands-based developer turned conversion rate optimization pro. He encourages ecommerce brands to test product pages, ads, and, well, everything.

He says merchants often prioritize their sites’ aesthetics over copy and content, a big mistake. “Content and copy play a very big role in conversions, if not the biggest,” he told me.

In our recent conversation, he addressed conversion wins, product and home page tactics, A/B strategies, and more.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Who are you?

Dave Diederen: I’m the founder of Syntra, a conversion rate optimization agency in the Netherlands. I’m a firm believer in testing and collecting as much data as you can. We do a lot of product page and listicle testing.

I encourage the brands we work with to test new advertising angles, too, such as new creative.

Traffic that doesn’t end up on a product page has no chance to buy. So I tell merchants to keep it simple, focus on what they have, and optimize it.

Bandholz: What is the minimum traffic volume for statistically reliable testing?

Diederen: I would focus on the number of orders, not traffic. A brand might have 100,000 visitors and just 20 orders. There’s no way to judge that data accurately. So I aim for around 250 orders for an A/B test. That’s more than enough.

Brands that do not have 250 orders should typically focus on advertising to increase the volume. Every business is different, however.

Bandholz: Which areas on ecommerce sites drive the biggest conversion gains from testing?

Diederen: Announcement bars are the biggest. Even single-product stores can leverage them well. Most sellers slap on an announcement bar and forget about it. Instead, always link it to a product page, regardless of the promotion. Visitors tend to click on announcement bars.

Another mistake I see is not showing the price under a product title or above the fold in the product page description. Unfortunately, brands often show it in the variant selector or in the add-to-cart button.

If you’re selling supplements, address the ingredients. Comparison charts work well for fashion and healthcare.

Reviews always work well.

Other items are low priorities for conversion. FAQ sections and social proof can go at the bottom of the page, although it depends on the industry.

Brands don’t realize how many visitors divert to the home page. Visitors may start on a product page, click the company logo, and end up on the home page. But most brands don’t optimize their home page. A strong home-page hero image is a good place to start, whether it’s a lifestyle or product image.

Bandholz: How does copy impact conversions?

Diederen: It’s very important, way more than most merchants think. Most focus on a site’s appearance, but trust me, the look and feel aren’t as important. At the end of the day, what matters are the products.

Be specific about your product’s benefits and the problems it solves.

So, yes, content and copy play a very big role in conversions, if not the biggest.

Bandholz: What is your take on email pop-ups?

Diederen: It depends on how many visitors respond. If you get a lot of signups from pop-ups, it makes no sense to remove them. I’ve tested hiding pop-ups for four brands, and it has mostly reduced sales.

So I say don’t get rid of pop-ups, although don’t overdo them either.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you, support you, hire you?

Diederen: Our site is SyntraLabs.com. Follow me on X. I’m also on LinkedIn.

Ditch the Discount, Says Brand Marketer

Since 2013 Cherene Aubert has managed, advised, and executed ecommerce marketing campaigns. She’s worked for agencies, merchants, and as a freelance consultant. Her D2C advisory firm, Growth Capital, helps scale premium, high-growth brands.

Experience guides her advice. Brands are too quick to discount slow-moving products, she says. Bundles or buy-one-get-one offers are often better. Higher-priced goods typically appeal to existing customers, not new ones. Influencers drive acquisition.

She shared those views and more in our recent conversation. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Tell us what you do.

Cherene Aubert: I’m the founder and CEO of Growth Capital, a marketing agency for consumer brands.

I’ve spent a lot of time in ecommerce. I was head of strategy at Common Thread Collective, a D2C-focused agency. Before that, I held senior marketing roles at Ilia Beauty, a skincare company, and Bobbie, an infant formula brand — among others.

Bandholz: Describe an effective offer that doesn’t erode margins.

Aubert: It’s hard enough to get someone to buy something online. I’ve done a lot of market research for omnichannel brands, and, generally, a top discovery source is social media. But the number one sales channel is still physical retail.

So D2C brands must understand that consumers often buy online when there’s no other choice.

In beauty categories, products expire or are discontinued for many reasons. Perhaps the product breaks easily, or customers don’t like the finish. So we have to get rid of it.

The first reaction is often “let’s just discount this thing to move it.” But what you’re doing is making it accessible to new customers, but it won’t be the best experience. You’re selling a product that everyone hates.

A better option might be to offer a product everyone loves, then include the discontinued item for free. Customer expectations of that item are already low because we’re stating it has no value. Rather than 50% off a terrible product, they pay 100% for an amazing product, which includes the discontinued item that would be trashed anyway.

Testing offers requires nuanced thought about the customer experience.

Bandholz: What are the best promos for slow-moving products?

Aubert: Say you have a slower mover that’s a core part of your collection. This is where bundling can be effective. You’re positioning the customer to buy the one thing she wants and receive five other things.

In beauty, bundles might be everything you need for a five-minute face. In food products, it’s a sampler kit or perhaps a morning routine bundle.

Bandholz: How do you promote a bundled offer?

Aubert: Start with what you’re trying to achieve. For example, are you looking to reduce your customer acquisition cost or, instead, increase average order value? Those two goals often pull each other apart. The more you reduce your CAC, the more your AOV goes down, and the more you increase your AOV, the higher your CAC goes.

Be very clear about the best customer experience and who the offer is for. Should new customers buy everything all at once? Or do they buy a trial product or an introductory kit to get them involved in the brand?

An introductory kit could be available via a pop-up or accessible through navigation. Higher AOV offers generally appeal to existing customers, reachable via email and SMS. Partnering with an influencer can be a good way to design higher-priced items. There’s unlimited opportunity for experimentation.

Brands should not be reliant on special offers. The aim should be full-price transactions for as long as possible.

External, direct-response ads work best for single products. A video ad with multiple products is really a brand ad and less of a direct response.

Channel selection depends on the product category and the business stage. TikTok is one of the best awareness platforms. TikTok Shop is not the most profitable channel, but it’s a way to get affiliate influencer content at scale. Often, the hardest thing for brands is generating a lot of content.

I work with brands that use influencer affiliates as their primary acquisition driver, and Meta for retargeting and AOV products. Meta often has better marketing efficiency ratios. Oddly, CACs on Meta are sometimes better on non-acquisition campaigns.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you, hire you?

Aubert: Our site is GrowthCapital.co. Follow me on X or LinkedIn.

How Vessi Sells Waterproof Shoes

Ray Hua is the director of ecommerce at Vessi, a Canada-based direct-to-consumer seller of waterproof sneakers. The brand launched in 2017 after its founders developed and patented breathable fabric that repels water. Ray joined the company in 2021.

In our recent conversation, he shared the challenges of targeting the right audience, cross-border selling, diversifying, and more.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Give us a quick rundown of who you are and what you do.

Ray Hua: I’m the director of ecommerce at Vessi, a direct-to-consumer waterproof sneaker brand. I oversee strategies for site experiences, performance, merchandising, and lifecycle marketing. It’s been with the company for about five years.

Vessie launched nine years ago. Our founders developed and patented a lightweight, waterproof, and breathable fabric called Dyma-tex. People assume waterproof means it is not breathable. But our product is comfortable and looks like a regular sneaker.

During the pandemic, we gifted our product to healthcare workers. We received a lot of positive feedback from other communities, so we collaborated with niche networks to offer our products at a discount.

We’ve hired a lot of paid influencers in categories where folks are on their feet all day. We have tiers of influencers. Some have dedicated landing pages; others are for getting our name out.

We invest heavily in Meta for customer acquisition. We’re looking to diversify into Google and TikTok Shop. We’ve advertised on TikTok and even Reddit. Both drove a lot of traffic, but the quality was not very high. We couldn’t easily attribute revenue coming from those channels.

Bandholz: Vessi now sells apparel.

Hua: It’s more of an experiment in response to feedback in our customer surveys. Many mentioned expanding into apparel, socks, and accessories. They like our technology and want items that are fashionable and functional.

So we’re testing those categories for additional revenue. It hasn’t been smooth. We developed apparel that performed poorly and diverted resources from our footwear line.

Still, it was a good experiment and demonstrated the steep learning curve for a category we are not familiar with.

Bandholz: Vessi has warehouses in Canada and the U.S. Do you market differently to consumers in those countries?

Hua: Yes, we use different ads for each market. People in Canada know our brand. Our messaging to them is typically announcements about dropping new colors or limited editions.

We’re not as prominent in the U.S. Our ads there introduce the brand and explain the product’s benefits. Seattle is probably our best region in the U.S. It’s close to Vancouver and gets a lot of rain. We’re also strong in Florida, however, which is both sunny and rainy.

Bandholz: Does AI influence your marketing efforts?

Hua: We’re using AI tools mostly for operations. For example, we use AI to identify influencers aligned with our interests.

We’ve dabbled in AI to produce ad copy. We haven’t gone into AI-generated images or videos, mainly because we have strict brand guidelines.

Bandholz: Where can people find you, support you, buy your products?

Hua: Check out our products at Vessi.com. I’m on LinkedIn.

From Teacher to Fashion Brand Founder

In 2019 Nasrin Jafari was a middle school teacher in New York City. She had no ecommerce experience but was drawn to creating and building, which led her to sew and sell face masks during Covid.

Fast forward to 2026, and Mixed, her direct-to-consumer fashion brand, designs and produces female apparel and accessories. Referring to the company’s launch, she told me, “I had no idea how to make clothes.”

She does now, impressively, with multiple manufacturers, a thriving community, staff, and eager customers. She shared her story in our recent conversation.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: What do you do?

Nasrin Jafari: I’m the founder and designer of Mixed, a fashion brand based in Brooklyn. Before Mixed, I was a middle school history and English teacher with no background in ecommerce. During the pandemic, I began sewing face masks by hand and posting them on Instagram. That was the first physical product I had sold. That experiment evolved into a full apparel brand.

It all began with Instagram posts, not Etsy or marketplaces. I didn’t understand Meta ads or ecommerce marketing. I’ve learned those pieces as the business grew.

Creativity has always been part of my life. I painted and took art electives growing up, and I was a competitive dancer in high school. Yet I’ve always been drawn to business and building things. In college, those interests merged into a desire to build something meaningful. I thought that might be as a school teacher.

In many ways, building a brand is similar to teaching. You’re creating a vision, culture, and community around shared values. Mixed reflects my identity — I’m Japanese, Iranian, and American. The brand name captures that blend of influences and the balance between creativity and operating a business.

Bandholz: Fashion seems highly competitive.

Jafari: I started the business out of curiosity. I had no idea what I was getting into. Would I choose to go into apparel again? Probably not, although there’s a side of it I love.

I learned by doing. Inventory is really tricky. I was afraid of overordering inventory and ending up with dead stock. That’s why we launched a pre-order model. We now do a lot of pre-orders, which helps our cash flow, but I didn’t start it for that reason. It was because I was out of stock. Then I realized that the model is great for business.

Another thing is returns, which are a big part of online apparel. We have to acquire customers in a way that accounts for returns. I didn’t understand that initially. Again, it comes down to learning by doing.

Bandholz: You design your apparel. Where is it manufactured?

Jafari: I was looking for factories during Covid. Many of them had excess capacity. I found a factory in India whose owner was based here in New York. So that was an in-person element to build trust and a relationship. He was willing to work with us with no minimum order quantities.

His cost was higher than, say, Los Angeles-based manufacturers, but we still maintained a 75% margin. Our average order is about $228.

We’ve since scaled and can order larger quantities. We’ve added factories with lower costs.

I found the India factory by googling. After that, it was recommendations from friends in the industry, which I prefer. They worked with them, vetted them, and liked them.

Bandholz: What is your production and design process?

Jafari: I had no idea how to make clothes. I literally went to JoAnn Fabrics and tried to follow the pattern. I realized quickly I wasn’t good at it, and it was going to take time. I had connected with a home sewer on Instagram. She seemed to love our brand but had not worked in a commercial capacity. I asked her to make our initial samples. She was thrilled. She made the initial samples, one of which remains our best-selling product.

Now I’m at a point where the factory does a lot of that. I send sketches with very minimal specs, and they can figure it out.

Selling true bespoke garments requires a dedicated designer, either in-house or outsourced. But factories with extensive garment experience can usually handle simpler items.

I design on an iPad with a stylus using Procreate.

Bandholz: I’ve seen your new-arrival ads on Instagram and Facebook. You seem to have a blueprint that is working.

Jafari: Yes, all our advertising has been on Meta. No Google or TikTok.

We have a couple of ad formats. It’s like a flywheel, as we continue to scale. We find the models, then shoot the videos in-house. Then we edit in the Philippines, and create and upload new ads to Meta.

My first successful ad came from an outing with a girlfriend. I was wearing one of my jumpsuits. I asked her to shoot me with a couple of angles, nothing fancy. It showed my outfit in an urban setting. The ad worked. We repeated the concept.

Bandholz: Are you handling your own fulfillment?

Jafari: Yes. Part of the initial rationale was returns, and part was our low volume. Plus, our pre-order model meant we were receiving inventory constantly. Getting it to an outsourced fulfillment provider added an extra step and delayed delivery to our customer.

Bandholz: How do you ensure your products resonate with would-be customers?

Jafari: When we design a piece, I’m always thinking about the customer — who she is, what she wants, and what we’ve already given her. The goal is to create what she needs next. My personal taste influences the brand, but I try not to be overly subjective about design decisions. Ultimately, customer response and sales tell us what works.

We also gather feedback from our community. We host discussions in our Circle community platform where customers comment on fabric designs, share preferences, and discuss products. That feedback, along with replies to my weekly newsletter and in-person events, provides valuable qualitative insight.

Our target customer is a 35- to 65-year-old woman who values creativity, independence, and self-expression— and wants clothing to reflect that.

Bandholz: Where can people buy your clothes, support you, follow you?

Jafari: Our site is MixedByNasrin.com. I’m on LinkedIn.

How a Pro Writer Uses AI

Kaleigh Moore is a 12-year freelance writer and editor. She’s contributed to Shopify, Forbes, Vogue, Adweek, and various B2B providers, among others. Like all of us, she’s now grappling with the promise and limits of AI.

She calls AI a “fire hose of information” that greatly increases efficiency. She also cautions on what it cannot do, such as interview humans or learn from experience.

She shared those views and more in our recent conversation, including her preferred AI platform, use cases for entrepreneurs, and getting started with AI-driven composition.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Give us a rundown of what you do.

Kaleigh Moore: I’m a freelance writer and editor. I’ve worked with all kinds of B2B and SaaS companies within the ecommerce ecosystem over the past 12 years.

One of the first case studies I wrote for Shopify featured Beardbrand. That was over a decade ago.

Bandholz: Does AI commoditize writing?

Moore: The emerging AI composition tools are incredible; they greatly increase efficiency, especially for the tedious parts of writing, such as ecommerce product descriptions.

But remember that AI tools operate on existing information. They are not creating something new. Human composition provides original perspectives — experiences, thoughts, and feelings.

Do we care about those perspectives? Some people care a lot. I’m a journalist first and foremost. I want to do my own homework, fact-check, and make sure I’m putting out the best of whatever my name is on.

I worry about young people and how they’ll use these tools. I’m 37 years old. I grew up in a largely pre-internet, pre-social media time. I hope we always have human experience and interaction — talk to each other, go to coffee. To me, AI is a nice supplement, but it doesn’t replace person-to-person interaction.

It’s been interesting on the hiring side of things. I occasionally look at full-time in-house writing roles. Over the last 18 months, many of those roles have shifted to require AI operational skills, to hop into an AI tool and craft something. If you are not hands-on with these tools, you won’t even get an interview. So the ability to learn the tools and be curious about them is an important skill now.

Some people say AI is just a bubble, but I don’t think so. It’s too powerful.

Bandholz: How does a writer or entrepreneur learn and apply AI?

Moore: It’s a fire hose of information every day. I approach it as a journalist. A key skill is developing very strong prompts. The more advanced we are at prompting, the better the output.

Beyond that, accept a willingness to learn the new functionalities. It can be intimidating, what with all the new tools.

Anthropic’s Claude is my go-to platform. Claude’s outputs are very good. Anthropic’s entire stance is open-source and transparent. The company prioritizes ethical concerns and data privacy. For me as a writer, Claude is the best. It’s also a great place to start.

Generative AI platforms such as Claude can help entrepreneurs and marketers with promotional emails, social media posts, and LinkedIn articles, among other applications. The platforms will remember a voice and style from existing content.

Bandholz: How do you train AI in that way?

Moore: I’ve been doing it for my own work. I feed Claude good, strong examples of my published articles, case studies, and guides to provide points of reference. It’s akin to informing a new hire, say a junior writer or copywriter.

The aim supplying a lot of very specific guidelines. Lots of dos and don’ts. Use this word; don’t use this one. Input it once, and the AI never forgets, unlike humans. And I can update it over time, which is essential. Although more examples are not always better. AI can get confused by too much information.

A user’s top 10 tweets would be a good, limited data set to start with, plus general instructions on likes and dislikes. Teach AI in the same way you would a human.

Say a merchant wanted to publish a blog post. I would enter a full brief, such as the targeted keyword, the audience, brand names to avoid, and data sources to cite. There’s quite a bit of heavy lifting involved just getting that prompt ready.

Certainly, the merchant could give it a paragraph and request a 500-word blog post on X for this audience. She would get a pretty good output.

But give it the full brief, and she will likely receive a much better result, requiring little editing or tweaking. It’s often a choice of spending time editing the output versus preparing the brief.

For me, editing AI text usually comes down to my writing preferences, though much of it is fact-checking. AI hallucinates; it makes stuff up. It will cite data that doesn’t exist.

Moreover, AI cannot interview or speak with an expert. We have to integrate those afterward.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you and reach out?

Moore: My site is KaleighMoore.com. I’m on X and LinkedIn.