Health Crisis Drives $50 Million Supplement CEO

Dean Brennan says a diet of beer, pizza, and fast food led to his ulcerative colitis. His doctors diagnosed it years ago in his twenties and told him he’d need medications for life. But Brennan decided otherwise.

“I didn’t want to take lifelong medication,” he told me. “It sparked my passion for health and led me to want to help others.”

Fast forward to 2024, and Brennan is the CEO of Heart & Soil, a nutritional supplement company doing $50 million in annual revenue.

In our recent conversation, he addressed his journey to Heart & Soil, key supplement ingredients, supply chain challenges, and more. The entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Give us a rundown of what you do.

Dean Brennan: I’m the CEO of Heart & Soil, a nutritional supplements company. I entered ecommerce in 2020 with no experience, coming from a background in filmmaking.

I got involved with the company from my personal health journey. In my twenties, I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, and doctors told me I’d need medication for life. I grew up eating home-cooked, natural foods, although in college I consumed a lot of beer, pizza, and fast food.

I didn’t want to take lifelong medication. It sparked my passion for health and led me to want to help others who suffer from conditions like psoriasis, Crohn’s disease, and eczema.

Heart & Soil offers supplements containing nature-based multivitamins made from bovine organs sourced from regenerative farms, initially in New Zealand and now also from the U.S.

Bandholz: How did you get connected with Heart & Soil?

Brennan: I was aware of Paul Saladino, our founder, but not the company. He’s a board-certified physician and a nutrition specialist. I followed him on social media while experimenting with a carnivore diet. I admired his ability to simplify complex health concepts and share them in an engaging way.

In 2020, I met Paul by chance, along with two employees who are now our chief research officer and head of operations. At the time, the company hadn’t launched yet, and I offered feedback on its prototype product. Initially, I wasn’t looking for a position in the company, but I was passionate about their mission.

Later that year, after my persistence, Paul brought me on board the day the company launched. I printed shipping labels and prepared the orders. Within three months, I had worked my way into a bigger role.

The team was small then — Paul, me, and three others. We worked out of a rental house in West Austin, packing and shipping supplements ourselves. We grew quickly. Paul realized his expertise was podcasting and researching, not operations. He assigned those responsibilities to me by January 2021.

Bandholz: How did you earn Paul’s trust so quickly?

Brennan: It was a gradual transition. Paul left for a trip to Africa. Then there was a massive ice storm in Austin, and he couldn’t return. Eventually, he went to Costa Rica and decided to stay there, leaving me to run the business. I think he trusted me because I showed up every day, worked hard, and didn’t ask for anything.

The transition was easy. I was nervous about how the team would react, but they were all on board. We’ve worked well together ever since.

Bandholz: How do you spread awareness beyond Paul’s podcast audience?

Brennan: Only about 30% of our customers come from Paul’s audience, with the same percentage coming through word of mouth. Our product works, and we’ve received hundreds of customer success stories. One of our strengths is personalized customer service. Our team of health guides offers one-on-one support, which has led to word-of-mouth referrals. People often tell others about us, even if they haven’t purchased our products themselves.

We also started another podcast called Radical Health Radio, and we’re producing films for YouTube. Our documentary on seed oils will be released next month.

Bandholz: What’s your supply chain like?

Brennan: Our long-term goal is to build a U.S.-based supply chain to produce all the organs needed for our supplements. In 2020, nothing like this existed in the U.S., so we sourced from New Zealand, where regenerative farming is common. But we’ve worked hard over the last four years to develop U.S. suppliers, supporting American farmers.

There’s a huge education gap in the U.S. regarding organ consumption. Around the world, most cultures consume organs regularly. We hope that educating consumers can drive demand for better products and ingredients.

When consumers ask for healthier alternatives, large companies will have to respond. This movement isn’t just about our products but about supporting sustainable farming practices and improving public health.

Bandholz: Where can people buy your supplements and follow you?

Brennan: Our ecommerce site is Heartandsoil.co. You can follow me on X and LinkedIn.

Supply.co Founder on Life after the Sale

Patrick Coddou’s entrepreneurial journey is impressive. In 2015 he launched Supply, a direct-to-consumer seller of razors and shaving goods, and then sold the business in 2022. He conceived the idea, hired staff, scaled revenue, and exited profitably.

His journey is incomplete, however. His talents apply to seemingly any industry, but his identity for years was tied to Supply. He’s now adjusting and charting his next moves.

Patrick is among the most popular guests on the podcast, starting in 2020 and followed by appearances in 2021, April 2022, and October 2022. In this recent conversation, he shares his post-Supply life, the emotions of stepping away, and looking forward.

Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Update us on what you’ve been up to.

Patrick Coddou: It’s been quite a journey. I was the founder and CEO of a shaving company called Supply, which I sold a little over two years ago. After the sale, I stayed with the company for about a year, running the business and seeing it grow. I’m currently the head of marketing at a snow ski startup called M1 Skis. It’s been a bit of a roller coaster, but in a good way.

Bandholz: You took a step back from social media, particularly X. Why?

Coddou: After the sale, I hit burnout. I didn’t consciously decide to leave X — I just stopped engaging. Burnout comes with apathy and disinterest in things that once excited you, and X was one of those things. I stayed involved with Supply for a year after the sale, though, and it was productive. We doubled our top- and bottom-line numbers.

I had built a strong team, especially a capable head of marketing, Trace Crawford, who took a lot off my plate. As the year progressed, I became more of a leader and less of a doer, which helped me navigate the burnout. That was a big part of the transition.

Bandholz: How does leadership change when you stop doing everything yourself?

Coddou: It helped that I no longer had ownership, so I didn’t carry the same emotional weight. However, I was still financially motivated, as an earn-out was tied to the business’s performance. That allowed me to guide the team without micromanaging. They knew what needed doing, and I let them figure out how. Our team was solid; no one left that year, and the company continued to perform well.

Bandholz: You’re now outside of Supply. How has your perspective changed?

Coddou: My earn-out ended in August, but I had already stepped away from day-to-day operations a year prior. Trace took over as CEO, and I stayed on as a consultant. My role now includes filming ads and offering strategic advice. I have zero regrets about selling the business — it was the right move for me, my family, and the company.

But stepping away did force me to confront my identity. I hadn’t realized how much of my self-worth I tied to being the “razor guy” until that was gone. After the sale, I experienced a sense of joy, followed by a profound period of questioning and even depression. After the burnout, I felt lost, unsure of what I wanted to do next, and hesitant to return to ecommerce.

Bandholz: Why do entrepreneurs feel unfulfilled after selling their business?

Coddou: Many entrepreneurs believe that selling their business will bring happiness, but that’s rarely true. I attended the Main Street Summit, where we discussed how money, success, and fame don’t bring joy.

I’ve realized that selling Supply has brought me financial comfort and freedom but didn’t provide lasting happiness. Work is essential for finding joy and purpose, and I’ve come to appreciate that I need to be building something, whether a business or a personal project, to feel fulfilled.

Bandholz: Tell me about your role at M1 Skis. Was this a deliberate direction or an opportunity that fell into your lap?

Coddou: It was a bit of both. I’m running marketing for M1 Skis, a startup in its early stages. When I joined, there was almost no public awareness of the company. I’m responsible for building the brand from scratch, which I love doing. I work part-time, remotely, and for a friend. It’s a perfect fit. Initially, I hesitated to return to work, but this opportunity was too good to pass up.

Bandholz: How do you approach marketing for M1 Skis compared to Supply?

Coddou: The marketing strategies are surprisingly similar. At Supply, we sold high-end razors, which required educating customers about why they should invest in a more expensive product than competitors. It’s the same challenge with M1 Skis.

Unlike anything on the market, we make our skis from solid aluminum. They’re more expensive than traditional skis, and people are skeptical about the technology. My job is to explain why our product is worth the investment and build customer trust through education and engagement.

The experience has been great. I get to focus on the things I enjoy — like building the brand — without dealing with the headaches of payroll or invoices. The best part is that I don’t lose sleep like I did with Supply. I’m still invested in M1’s success, but it doesn’t consume my thoughts 24/7. I can fully check out when I’m not working, which is a huge relief.

Bandholz: Could you envision starting another business?

Coddou: I could, but I would approach it very differently. I would create a small, manageable business with minimal stress. Something that aligns with my lifestyle, even if it means making less money. It would be niche, high-margin, and not reliant on constant social media or inventory management. I want a business that works for me, not one that adds unnecessary complications to my life.

Bandholz: You’re advocating for simplicity.

Coddou: Exactly. The complexity of Supply became overwhelming. We used 30 apps on our Shopify store and multiple social media channels. It was a lot to manage. At M1 Skis, I’ve kept things simple. We’re using Shopify Email instead of a more complex service like Klaviyo, and I haven’t installed any extra apps. This approach allows me to focus on building a great product and telling its story.

Bandholz: Where can people buy these skis and reach out to you?

Coddou: M1skis.com. I’m on LinkedIn and X.

The ‘Why’ of Man Flow Yoga

To Dean Pohlman, long-term business success stems from a purpose. His is to help men improve their health and fulfillment through fitness and personal connections. That’s the mission of Man Flow Yoga, the company he founded in 2012, which offers memberships to workout programs and a paid community.

Pohlman, a former college lacrosse player, is an authority on yoga instruction for men and a published author on the topic.

He first appeared on the podcast in 2021. In this our second conversation, he shares client success stories, YouTube tactics, and the “why” behind his business.

The entire audio of our discussion is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and clarity.

Eric Bandholz: Give us a quick rundown on who you are.

Dean Pohlman: I own a company called Man Flow Yoga. We sell memberships to Yoga workout programs for men.

I’m a former collegiate lacrosse player. I discovered yoga by accident but noticed its benefits after consistent practice. However, I saw that men weren’t engaging with it much, especially because it wasn’t presented in a way that resonated with them. So, I created a brand focusing on fitness-oriented yoga tailored for men. I initially launched a YouTube channel and a Facebook page.

Over time, I developed paid membership workouts for men — primarily those in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. They found they couldn’t do their regular workouts due to aging and needed to focus on flexibility and foundational strength. Our programs help with flexibility and alleviate pain in, typically, the lower back, shoulders, and knees. The ultimate goal is to enable men to stay active and independent as long as possible, whether playing with their kids or staying mobile as they age.

I’ve been interviewing members for our podcast, “The Better Man.” One memorable story is from a guy who weighed 300 pounds at the onset of Covid. He started a yoga program alongside daily dog walks and lost 75 pounds within a year. What stands out from these stories is the consistency people find in exercise. They enjoy it and feel good afterward, which encourages them to continue. This creates a ripple effect, where they start improving other areas of their lives like diet or adding in more physical activities.

Bandholz: What do your workout programs look like?

Pohlman: They can be as few as two to three times per week or as many as five or six. Our sessions aren’t long — typically 30 to 40 minutes. We have beginner programs that start at 15 to 20 minutes. People start noticing changes after just a few weeks, especially in how they feel.

For example, back pain disappears. These physical improvements motivate people to stay consistent. When you feel better and have more energy, it’s easier to continue instead of focusing solely on aesthetics, which takes much longer to notice.

Bandholz: You’ve done a great job of building a community.

Pohlman: I’m proud of the Facebook Group we’ve built, though it took a lot of time. It’s a supportive community of about 7,000 men who aren’t afraid to be vulnerable and share personal struggles. When someone posts about not being consistent with workouts, they’re met with understanding, not judgment. People relate to the same struggles, which fosters a sense of camaraderie.

I launched the group in 2013, and new members are always welcome. However, to maintain its quality, we keep the group exclusive to paying members — whether they join a challenge, sign up for a full membership, or purchase a book.

We consistently remind members about the community through emails, video mentions, and our 90-day onboarding series. The ongoing engagement keeps people connected and accountable.

Bandholz: How’s your YouTube channel performing?

Pohlman: Despite having over 500,000 subscribers, engagement is relatively low, although new videos typically get 3,000 to 10,000 views in the first week. Some go viral. Our morning yoga videos have recently gained traction. Short-form content is also helping with the algorithm. We went from gaining about 3,000 subscribers monthly to 10,000 last month. Certain topics, like sexual wellness, perform exceptionally well.

Bandholz: Do you collaborate with other brands?

Pohlman: Collaborations need to feel organic. I prefer working with people I genuinely connect with and would hang out with outside of business. One example is Anthony Balduzzi from Fit Father Project. We’ve been collaborating for about two years; our products complement each other. Beyond business, he’s a friend. These types of authentic relationships work well for long-term success, and that’s the approach I take.

Bandholz: What’s your long-term vision for Man Flow Yoga?

Pohlman: I want the business to expand beyond yoga into a broader men’s wellness brand. I’ve started introducing mental and emotional wellness topics on the podcast, but I want to incorporate more of that. We currently offer structured programs via an app and website, but everything is self-paced. I want to introduce more guided support — something more hands-on. While we have customer support and a Facebook Group, a more direct assistance model could benefit our members.

Bandholz: What’s the “why” behind your business?

Pohlman: Many men haven’t done the introspective work to understand their desires and what drives them. It’s about recognizing that the things I truly want — family, freedom, joy — are already within reach. I don’t need to wait for a business milestone to achieve them.

Most men believe they must accomplish something before feeling fulfilled, but that’s a trap. Once you realize you can have what you want, life becomes easier. Authenticity is key. People can sense inauthenticity, and I believe businesses built on genuine connections and purpose are more successful in the long run.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you?

Pohlman: Visit ManFlowYoga.com to get started. You can find me on all the major platforms — YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok.

4x Founder Debuts Ecommerce Intel Tool

In late 2020 I interviewed a developer who had launched a Shopify app to send manual text messages to cart abandoners. Eighteen months later we spoke again, this time to discuss his sale of that company and purchase of another, an app for creating upsells in a Shopify checkout.

By early 2023 he had sold the second company and launched a third one, a coupon-leak recovery app.

And that brings me to my fourth conversation with Dennis Hegstad. He has shut down the coupon-leak business and started his fourth, a data provider for the ecommerce industry called Internet Research Unit. What, exactly, is Internet Research Unit? I asked him that question and more when we recently spoke.

The entire audio of our conversation is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Give us an update on what’s happening in your world.

Dennis Hegstad: In 2021, I sold LiveRecover, our SMS app for Shopify. That was our first exit in ecommerce. Then I sold another app, OrderBump, just 100 days after buying it in 2022. That sale was pretty much luck.

In 2023 I launched Vigilance, a coupon-code leak protection app, but that business failed. Shopify updated its checkout system, ultimately killing Vigilance, so we shut it down. We offered to return the investors’ money, but they said, “Try something else.” That’s when we started building Internet Research Unit earlier this year. Those same Vigilance investors are part of it.

Bandholz: What’s Internet Research Unit?

Hegstad: It’s a data platform for the ecommerce industry. Our primary users are brand owners, agencies, app developers, and financiers. Brands can track competitors’ revenue, units sold, popular SKUs, app stacks, and more. They can set up alerts to track competitors’ sales or app usage changes to guide product launches or strategic decisions. Agencies and app developers can use the data for lead generation — tracking which brands use specific services or technologies, such as Klaviyo, and which don’t. Financiers can assess trends or identify struggling companies they might want to invest in or acquire.

Our product is high-end, priced around $500 a month, so it’s not for beginners. It’s aimed at established companies who want to fine-tune their strategies.

Our data is public; brands cannot hide it from our platform. We can track compliance-related issues, like price manipulation or accessibility compliance, so companies can address potential problems before they lead to lawsuits.

We have ways of accurately estimating sales and breaking it down by SKU. For example, if a brand sells leggings, we can report which colors and sizes are selling best. That way, competitors can focus on high-performing products.

Bandholz: The front-end design of your software apps, including Internet Research Unit, is terrific. What’s your design philosophy?

Hegstad: We don’t use professional designers on the site. My co-founder and I handle design and prioritize aesthetics. Stripe pioneered the trend of beautifully designed SaaS platforms, and we follow that approach. Software should feel exciting to use, not boring or outdated.

We aim for a cyberpunk vibe with Internet Research Unit — something that feels futuristic and appeals to tech-savvy users. We even started selling a bit of merchandise — shirts and hats — with designs inspired by this aesthetic. We did hire a designer to create cyberpunk-inspired shirt art. One says “anti-algorithm” because we feel like everyone’s life is ruled by algorithms these days. It’s a fun way to rebel against that.

We’ve considered other branded products, such as ZYN-style [nicotine-pouch] cans with USB drives inside. But we’re focused on growing the software business before diving deep into merchandise. If the software performs well, we might reinvest some of the profits into the brand side.

Bandholz: Is the platform fully built?

Hegstad: There’s more to come. We launched in March, and we’ve slowly onboarded users. In November, we’ll open it to the public. We want to add funding data so our users can find brands that have raised capital but are underperforming. That would help venture capitalists or merger and acquisition teams identify struggling companies that need help.

We’re not trying to shoot for the stars. We want to build something fun and keep it going. Reaching $5 million in annual revenue would be great. We love the business — it feels challenging, and there’s much to learn.

Bandholz: Where can people support you?

Hegstad: Our website is InternetResearchUnit.com. You can also find me on LinkedIn and X.

Software Founder Pivots to PPE Manufacturing

I’ve interviewed hundreds of entrepreneurs for this podcast. Most are problem solvers and optimists, confident in their ability to fulfill a need.

Take Lloyd Armbrust. He’s an editor turned software founder, having launched OwnLocal, a Y Combinator-backed portal for local newspapers.

When the pandemic hit, he observed doctors and nurses struggling to get protective gear. He thought, “This is ridiculous. How hard could it be to make these things?”

His solution was Armbrust American, an Austin, Texas-based manufacturer of personal protective equipment, which he launched in May 2020 and remains viable despite the dramatic drop in demand.

He and I recently spoke. He shared his lessons in manufacturing, ecommerce, and family-first priorities. Our entire audio is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Tell us who you are.

Lloyd Armbrust: My background is in media and software, but most prominently, I started a U.S.-based personal protective equipment manufacturing company in May 2020, at the onset of the pandemic. We produce U.S.-approved surgical masks, KN95 facemasks, and gloves. People said manufacturing couldn’t be done here and had to be in China, but we proved them wrong — though it’s been the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

When the pandemic hit in March 2020, my software business, OwnLocal, was slowing down. I saw how doctors and nurses struggled to get protective gear — some wore raincoats in emergency rooms. I thought, “This is ridiculous. How hard could it be to make these things?” So, I started researching and quickly learned it was much more difficult than I assumed.

I come from a software background, and I often say pushing pixels is easier than pushing atoms. If you want to scale software, click a few buttons on Amazon Web Services, and you’re ready. Manufacturing is a different beast. Yet we launched on Shopify and made a $1 million revenue in the first week, mainly because no one had masks in stock.

Bandholz: Did you have inventory ready, or was it a scramble?

Armbrust: We were producing masks but underestimated how hard fulfillment would be. We didn’t have a shipping system or proper label printers. I bought a label printer from Office Depot and tried to fulfill the first 100 orders. We had thousands of orders coming in, and it felt impossible. It took about three months to catch up.

This wasn’t about money. It was about solving a problem. Our mission from the start was to bring strategic manufacturing back to the U.S. All profits have gone back into the company. Today, consumer demand for masks has dropped significantly. We’re down to about $1.8 million in sales over the last 12 months compared to $7 million in January 2022 alone.

Bandholz: How do you manage a company with such a revenue drop?

Armbrust: It’s tough and demotivating. Scaling up and scaling down require the same skills — cutting costs and being ruthless. In the early days, our system was inefficient. We had 27 assembly machines, with 100 people running them to produce about a million units daily. Now, we’ve got five machines, each run by one person to output 200,000 units daily. So, we went from 27 machines and 100 employees to five machines and five employees, with the same production capacity.

We got lucky with our lease. The facility had been used by a defense contractor. When the pandemic hit, no one was leasing manufacturing space, so we got the space at a fraction of the cost. The owner wanted $50,000 a month for the space. It was really beautiful and big. We started at $5,000 monthly and worked up to $20,000, which they agreed on. Still, it was an 18-month lease. But by the time demand for PPE dropped, we were in prime real estate, right next to Amazon and Elon Musk’s Boring Company. We eventually moved to a facility on my ranch to save costs.

Bandholz: When you built that facility, what were your revenue projections, and where are you now?

Armbrust: We’re down to $1.8 million in annual consumer sales, but that’s only part of our business. We also manufacture for the government and other companies, but those contracts come with tighter margins — about 10-15%. The consumer side is more profitable and keeps us afloat.

When I built the facility, I had no idea where the bottom would be. China sells masks at prices lower than what it costs us to buy raw materials. They deliver masks to the U.S. for 1 cent each, while my raw materials cost more than that. The Chinese government subsidizes their manufacturers, covering costs like machines and even offering rebates. We can’t compete with that on price.

Ninety percent of medical gloves in the U.S. come from Malaysia and China. But before the pandemic, the U.S. didn’t produce any of these critical items.

Bandholz: You run the manufacturing business and OwnLocal, the publishing portal. You have six kids and a wife who also runs a business. How do you manage it all?

Armbrust: It’s all about priorities. My wife is at the top of my list, followed by my kids, and then making sure there’s money in the bank. I rank tasks every morning. I don’t focus on something that isn’t on that list. That can annoy some folks, but it keeps me sane. Work came before everything else in my first marriage, and I was unhappy.

Now, my family comes first. If my daughter wants to sit on my lap during an important business call, she’s in the meeting. I don’t apologize. I’m focused on enjoying life.

Bandholz: Where can people support you and reach out?

Armbrust: Armbrust.com. You can find me on X and LinkedIn.

Save Time by Managing Less, Says DHH

David Heinemeier Hansson is the creator of the Ruby on Rails software framework, the co-founder of Basecamp, an investor in multiple tech startups, a race car driver, and a family man. He’s a modern-day polymath.

Yet his workday calendar is not full of appointments. He abhors managing employees and attending meetings. His is a maker’s schedule, he says, with much uninterrupted time dedicated to solving problems he cares about.

In our recent conversation, his second in 16 years, Heinemeier Hansson addressed the rise of Rails, Basecamp, and, yes, time management.

The entire audio of our discussion is embedded below. The transcript is edited for clarity and length.

Eric Bandholz: Give us your pitch.

David Heinemeier Hansson: I am a co-owner of 37signals. We make software products. Our original tool is Basecamp, a project management tool we’ve been running for over 20 years. Hey.com is the email service we launched a few years ago and an alternative to Gmail. I also write a lot with my business partner, Jason Fried.

We’ve written four books on starting a business, running a business, and thinking about business. We published “Rework” in 2010, which sold a million copies worldwide. We also wrote “Remote: Office Not Required,” “It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy at Work,” and “Getting Real: The smarter, faster, easier way to build a successful web application.”

As part of building Basecamp in 2003, I created Ruby on Rails, the web framework behind Shopify, GitHub, and Airbnb. It was the original Twitter platform and about a million other prominent websites and applications worldwide.

I still work on that. We’re just putting the final touches on Rails 8, a big upgrade for a framework that’s also been around for 20 years and is powering 10% of worldwide ecommerce. That is what Shopify is responsible for. If you add on whatever else in the ecommerce world runs on Rails, it’s probably a higher number. Shopify is the largest Rails application. It’s 5 million lines of code and a huge portion of all ecommerce worldwide.

In my free time, I like racing cars. I’ve been driving race cars for about 15 years, mainly endurance events. The 24 Hours of Le Mans is my pivotal moment.

Bandholz: How do you prioritize your day?

Heinemeier Hansson: From the outset, Jason and I were on the same page about setting good habits early. We had seen so many entrepreneurs try to do the mode switch and fail. They’ll work 80, 100 hours a week in the early days and get accustomed, if not outright addicted, to that style of working.

We designed the business from the get-go so that we would work 40 hours a week, eight hours a day. That’s plenty. Negative things often happen when you push beyond that when you are so focused on work that you miss other things. You don’t have the right perspective on stuff. And you also think it’s all about input, which it’s not. It’s all about output.

After dropping my three kids off at school in the morning, I have a block of time and make it count. I’ve found and seen repeatedly from entrepreneurs who take pride in bragging about how much they work. It usually means sitting in front of a computer for maybe many hours, but what’s the output of those hours?

The way I make them count is through long stretches of uninterrupted time. I try to be on a maker’s schedule most days of most weeks. That’s not a luxury I can do every day or every week, but it is surprisingly easy to structure your business so that you don’t have a day full of meetings.

When I look at my schedule, very often it’s empty. It’s full of one long, beautiful block of uninterrupted time that I can dedicate to solving the problems I care deeply about, and that requires me to think for more than 20 minutes here or 40 minutes there or whatever crumbs are left over. We’ve designed 37signals not to need that level of constant minding and intervention.

We don’t have status update meetings where we sit around in a circle and tell each other what we’ve done. We use Basecamp’s automated questions. It’ll ask every employee on Monday morning, “What will you work on this week?” They will record it for the whole company to know, not just to their manager, not just to me, not just to Jason, but to everyone.

So the entire staff is in the loop on what’s happening in the business. At the end of every day, the system asks, what have you worked on today? That clock frequency allows me to check in on the business, to develop trust that the people we’ve hired are doing the work we intend for them to do and that they’re going in the right direction without me constantly supervising them.

It is incredible how much time you have in a 40-hour week when no one is constantly bothering you. Forty hours is a luxurious amount of time to make progress, but most people don’t see it that way because they squander it. They cut it into little bits, and then they end up Friday afternoon going, “Oh, man, I was so busy this week. What did I get done?”

Because we don’t work like that, we have room for kids, racing, hobbies, vacations, and time off while still progressing on Basecamp and Hey. We’re working on two new products simultaneously. I’m working on Rails 8, and I write a bunch. I can clear the decks and get stuff done.

Bandholz: How much insight are you looking to get from your team on those daily updates?

Heinemeier Hansson: I’m expecting a story. It can focus on whatever you want to emphasize. This is one of the reasons why we collect this information in an open text field. It’s not derived from what to-dos you’ve checked off or the files you uploaded. It’s not automated. It is an opportunity to reflect on what you did today that was important and that you would like to convey to others. Sometimes, the answer is pretty mundane, “I worked on this same project. Here’s a quick anecdote about an issue I encountered and why it was hard, and why it sucked up a lot of my time.”

Often, those anecdotes become conversation starters in the comment thread for that update. Maybe I’ll chime in. “I hadn’t seen that problem or seen it elsewhere, and here’s how I solved it. Maybe you can do that too.” Or someone else from another part of the business goes, “Actually, we had a customer ask about that.” The updates in Basecamp are public to everyone in the company. If you work in an office and occasionally have that hallway or water cooler conversation, it’s usually contained to your team. When you do it on Basecamp, everyone gets to see everything. We’re 60 people, and it works excellent.

Bandholz: You’re not reading all 60, right?

Heinemeier Hansson: No, I scan. I usually scroll through most of these check-ins daily or weekly. Something will catch my eye, and I can scroll back up. I can consume the status updates of 60 people in about five minutes.

We have zero full-time managers. Out of the 60 people we have, everyone, including Jason and me, treats management as a second job to put on only when necessary.

Bandholz: Where can people follow you?

Heinemeier Hansson: Dhh.dk is my website. I’m also on X, @dhh.